Split: The removal of U.S. forces from Japan

[Mazikeen]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Doesn't matter where you are from. Patriotism and nationalism blinds you from the truth and makes you intolerant of any criticism however valid it may be.

I'm not intolerant to criticism of my country. In fact, my ancestors on both sides of my family have in one way or another been persecuted by early Americans. My Native American ancestors were clearly persecuted, and the same goes for my Irish ancestry. I know all too well about some of the poor choices made by the early United States of America. Do I think the Korean War was wrong? No. Do I think the Vietnam War was wrong? Not wrong, but poorly executed. What about the Iraq/Afghanistan wars? I think they need to be fought.

It's absolutely ignorant to cry and point at the United States of America as holding Japan back though. Each and every country on this planet has done horrible things, but it's a goddamn fact that none have been more terrible than Japan and Germany's actions during and before World War II. Anyone who denies that is either ignorant to the truth of the matter, brainwashed, or talking out of their rears to better assimilate into the Japanese culture(It's not going to help).

Originally Posted by GoNative

It also makes you believe that your country and people are better than others which breeds arrogance and contempt for others.

Oh, I definitely don't think that Americans are better than any other nationality. In fact, I think the entire world working together is the only way to forge a better tomorrow for our species. That's why I like the cooperation between JSDF and the US military. We can work together, and we can make the right decisions together.

Originally Posted by GoNative

These are the main reasons I despise both patriotic and nationalistic fervor. As far as I'm concerned being patriotic is not a good thing at all but unfortunately in many countries patriotism is valued highly.

Patriotism is not as active in the United States as you may believe. It's definitely active though, and your life won't be impeded if you don't show you're a "patriot". God knows that the flag of the Saint Patrick's Battalion is flying outside my house as I type this.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Mazikeen

It's absolutely ignorant to cry and point at the United States of America as holding Japan back though. Each and every country on this planet has done horrible things, but it's a goddamn fact that none have been more terrible than Japan and Germany's actions during and before World War II. Anyone who denies that is either ignorant to the truth of the matter, brainwashed, or talking out of their rears to better assimilate into the Japanese culture(It's not going to help).

I wasn't saying the US is holding Japan back!

And I wasn't denying WW2!

I was just saying that it's irrelevant!

[Mazikeen]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I was just saying that it's irrelevant!

World War II is the very reason why Japan is no longer allowed to wage war or increase their self-defense force to the point it'd become a military. A large majority of Japanese citizens also feel the same way. It's only the conservative right that's calling for the removal of US forces.

You're effectively demanding that Japan and the United States break the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan. You simply don't understand the implications of this, ronin4hire. Japan and the United States work together, and the JSDF maintains autonomy from the US military. For the time being, the Japanese political right will have to accept this, because much like Germany, it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Mazikeen

World War II is the very reason why Japan is no longer allowed to wage war or increase their self-defense force to the point it'd become a military. A large majority of Japanese citizens also feel the same way. It's only the conservative right that's calling for the removal of US forces.

You're effectively demanding that Japan and the United States break the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan. You simply don't understand the implications of this, ronin4hire. Japan and the United States work together, and the JSDF maintains autonomy from the US military. For the time being, the Japanese political right will have to accept this, because much like Germany, it's not going to change anytime soon.

I'm not demanding anything.

My position is that the relationship between Japan and the US is a practical and pragmatic one based on mutual gain. As soon as Japan feels that it will gain more by getting rid of the alliance it will and the same goes for the US. It has nothing to do with WW2 or being "allowed" to do anything.

[Atredies]

i was born in wellington new zealand. i hate my birthplace. it is not an exciting place to live for young people. thank god i came to my mother's country, the united states of america.

i agree with mazikeen. the us military forces will always be in japan until japan has a radical series of change.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Komitsuki is a Chinese nationalist who also thinks China is the greatest country on Earth... you want to see real anti-Americanism then look him up.

where is the blame game here? do you want my honest opinion? i think you boys are equally bad or in your personal word butthurt. political science and international relations are always about blaming each other. it is what you do to him or the opposite. it is an inhumane subject of discussion. politics or diplomacy and religious beliefs are the reasons for people dividing and fighting. i agree with sinstra. stop fighting and save your energy somewhere else.

i am an american who speaks mandarin chinese as a second language. i love china more but i love both china and japan. it was a pro-china diplomacy after the sino-soviet split that helped america to end the cold war. chinese nationalists are america's important assets to maintaining that region. it is same as the positive sino-american relationship is important for china.

in conclusion maybe except for the military america is doing fine in front of japan and china right now. let us keep it that way.

[Ronin4hire]

chinese nationalists are america's important assets

Riiiiight... this proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Oh and here's a tip... for someone who was "born in New Zealand and moved to America" then you should know that sentences and nouns start with capital letters.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Riiiiight... this proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Oh and here's a tip... for someone who was "born in New Zealand and moved to America" then you should know that sentences and nouns start with capital letters.

Stick to topic Ronin doesn't matter you could have left the grammar part out, it just looks like your picking.

[dogsbody70]

ronin, I don't know why you think you know everthing. It seems to me you could take a lesson in good manners and stop being rude and putting other people down.

You seem to argue for the sake of arguing-- and no doubt if we say white is white and black is black, you will find a way to deny that also.

I don' t know who brought you up-- but certainly good manners seems to be unknown to you-- you always think You Know best and that is not so.


Please treat members with more respect than you do at present.

some people are naturally contradictory-- and it seems that you fit the bill.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Riiiiight... this proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Oh and here's a tip... for someone who was "born in New Zealand and moved to America" then you should know that sentences and nouns start with capital letters.

really RONIN--- just who Do you think you are with your criticisms. I do not always use capitals when I should-- does it matter so much when we are just emailing quickly?

You always find something to criticise, its about time you had a dose of your own medicine.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

You seem to argue for the sake of arguing-- and no doubt if we say white is white and black is black, you will find a way to deny that also.

I've seen Ronin4Hire agree and I've seen him disagree in posts. He's not arguing for the sake of arguing, His opinions tend to the unpopular. Still, he has the right to his opinion. And, having a minority opinion doesn't make one wrong. We are here to discuss things.