Split: The removal of U.S. forces from Japan

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The problem is SEA is not working towards it and there are so many issues between Asian countries involved it will be long time before they ever see anything like EU. China is dominate right now and will only get stronger politically and economically. Im conflicted myself about the bases i feel the Okinawan resident about noise and pollution and the destruction of natural wildlife and habitats. However, the latest research reports i read is that an overwhelming majority of Japanese citizens want the bases. Iv spoken numerous experts at American University and at University of Maryland and they all tend to say the same thing. The Japanese need but ask and the US would leave Japan but its so much more complicated than we are making it out to be.

Well they are working towards it. But you're right... it's just going really slowly and there are many issues to be ironed out.

The ASEAN bloc are a group of South East Asian countries that are looking to create a competitive economy like that of the EU. The ASEAN bloc is usually just SEA countries but Australian and New Zealand are trying to make it clear that they want to be included too, should this get off the ground. Japan, the US, South Korea and India are often invited to negotiations as observers too.

I think an active commitment form Japan would speed up the process. In fact I think ASEAN needs countries like Japan and Australia to take the lead in creating a SEA community.

(Chinamini.. anyone ever play the game Front Mission? The OCU (Oceanic Cooperative Union which includes Japan. Korea, SEA and Australasia) in that game is sort of what I'm envisioning would work.)

[chiuchimu]

Ihate this quote system so I'll bold in my comments.

Originally Posted by Mazikeen

The majority of Japanese citizens like their amended. While you're allowing a Japanese war power, why not take away free speech too? I'm sure the conservative right would love that.

Wow, you start off by bulldozing right thru my post. The scenario is:"Japanese decide they want a military and amend constitution. American's agree to sell bases to Japan and leave". This is the starting point. We debate the pros and cons of this hypothetical even. Can't go back in time and say " No Japanese aren't for it, or US won't allow it". It's a hypothetical discussion.
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post827969



Next, I posted my opinions on the benefits.


What political pressure? We're not forcing Japan into anything whatsoever.
The U.S. always applies political pressure. Ronin4Hire posted some links too



The Cold War is over. Russian and American relations are great, as are the relations with Chinese and American. The political status of Japan has nothing to do with the United States anymore. Don't blame us for the animosity these countries may feel towards you, considering the wars fought between Japan, Russia, and China.
America's presents in Japan is causing problems. For many Chinese, they see American presents in Japan as proof that Japan is a virtual puppet state of the U.S. It doesn't matter if you feel the statement is insane. Chinese actually see it that way.Go check out any Chinese forum and hear there opinions.



Japan has to earn the world's trust back. It's hard to forgive countries that contributed to over 60 million innocent people being massacred for their own country's glory. As much as I love Japanese culture, it is inherently nationalistic, and therein lies the problem with Japan being a war power again.
Back to that. Do you not understand what a hypothetical is? All political discussions about future events that haven't happened are hypothetical. Some are more likely to happen than others, but to discuss the pros and cons as will as how a particular event affects the world is what hypothetical discussions are all about. In ,this discussion, America has obviously agreed to sell Japan the bases and will participate in a five year phase out program.
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post827969


We're not afraid of Japan, but it would be too costly for the world at large were countries like Japan or Germany allowed to become war powers again. We're enjoying a modicum of peace right now, and I want that to continue as long as possible, because I love every human being on this planet, not just American people.
How, is Japan going to start an arms race? Japan starts WW3? Your assumptions are unfounded.



The JSDF is already great. It has autonomy from the United States, and did you notice that the United States of America didn't force Japan into the Iraq/Afghanistan wars? They wanted to go in, and it was allowed on a peace-keeping basis. You wanted to leave, you left.
Japan pays a lot of money each time for these American coalition wars. I have no proof that the U.S. is not pressuring Japan for money over troops so I'll hold my tongue here bu, I'd rather Japan send in troops like everyone else and not pay huge amounts of money(didn't Japan pay 1/4 the cost of the Irag War? I forgot the exact number).


Do we really need more military technology? Why not focus Japan on other paths of advancement? How about focusing on computers, medicine, automobiles, and so forth? Japan has it great at the moment. You're defended from foreign countries attacking by your own power, and by the United States of America.
Military R&D has boosted the tech in many fields in other countries including the U.S. Currently, when Japan buys something like F-16(F-22) it's paying for the plane and the U.S. R&D. U.S. buys hardware developed in Canada. Why not buy from Japan?



There's so much that Japan can do right now, and you know what's great about that? You can do anything you want with your country. The world loves Japan for it's culture, cuisine, and the media it pumps out. The western world is enthralled with your country, and yet you say it's not enough to be loved, you want the ability to kill more effectively.
Your against Japan having a military. OK. I would eventually like to see Japan have one.


Japan is already on equal footing with the United States.
Highly debatable statement.



You have no right to tell people what to talk about, chiuchimu.
1) Then you have no right to tell Ronin4Hire anything either.
2) I might not, but mods can close topics and ban/warn poster for going off topic.

Thank you MMM and Sinestra for your points of view. I don't care if people agree or disagree. I want to discuss the matter as outline in my post. I think discussion is good because it examines what a lot of people have to say. It's not a war.

@siokan
stop giving me riddles and state clearly your arguments.

[Mazikeen]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

I want to discuss the matter as outline in my post.

Really not going to happen, dear.