What's it like for an American to live in Japan?

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by MMM

Is the OP asking how he should dress as a 二世? Why are you endorsing the idea that foreigners should try and assimilate and pretend they are Japanese? Should foreigners in Japan get Japanese haircuts, imitate the same expressions, take on the same postures, and copy the same clothing?

It's what NORMAL people do when they go to live in a foreign country. It's what the people of the host country expects out of foreigners. What part of this don't you get??

Originally Posted by MMM

When I see foreigners in America doing this I find it quite odd. I would think Japanese people would find the same thing just as odd.

You can't be living in America. Beyond FOBs, everyone assimilates here. Regardless of race, you can tell in 3 minutes if the guy has been in the states long. I'm not saying the races interacted a lot, America is not a melting pot. But, beyond skin color, everyone here is the same: hair styles all the same, clothing style is the same, people all act the same, they talk about the same news. Skin color is the only thing that stands people apart.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

It's what NORMAL people do when they go to live in a foreign country. It's what the people of the host country expects out of foreigners. What part of this don't you get??

I am very confused by what you are saying, and I lived in Japan for a few years. I did not change the way I dress or the way I cut my hair. Why would you say that's what people in Japan expect.

Have you changed the way you dress or the way you cut your hair to live in the US? Did you toss out your clothes you bought in Japan and buy a whole new wardrobe? I seriously doubt it.

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

You can't be living in America. Beyond FOBs, everyone assimilates here. Regardless of race, you can tell in 3 minutes if the guy has been in the states long. I'm not saying the races interacted a lot, America is not a melting pot. But, beyond skin color, everyone here is the same: hair styles all the same, clothing style is the same, people all act the same, they talk about the same news. Skin color is the only thing that stands people apart.

Again, what you are saying sounds incredibly foreign and odd to me.

First of all, I live in the US. I can tell you first hand not everyone assimilates here. Maybe you live in southern California, where looking the the same is more important that the rest of the country, but believe, here is Portland, OR it is the opposite, so let's not talk about "America" as if it is one way of thinking. Here hair styles are not all the same, clothing is not all the same. Let's not confuse people.

[WellThatHurt]

Man so youre saying someone should change the way they look and act when going to another country? I dont agree at all. People should be able to be themselves no matter where they are.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by WellThatHurt

Man so youre saying someone should change the way they look and act when going to another country? I dont agree at all. People should be able to be themselves no matter where they are.

I couldn't agree more. I'm exactly the same person here in Japan as I was back in my home country. I'm not going to change the person I am just so I fit in better. That doesn't mean being direspectful or arrogant. That's not the sort of person I am. But I'm not changing the way I dress or my personality just to be accepted more. Accept me as I am or not at all. Doesn't overly worry me.

[edelweiss]

I know all about the seating for the elderly, I take great pains in following signs and apparent norms in other countries. When I sit in the middle section of a subway car, carefully seat myself so as not to touch the people next to me, legs together like a prim girl, set my small handbag on my knees placing my shopping bag on my feet I don't expect the person next to me to look directly at me and make a face like I just sat down like a smelly flatulent slob then tense her body and point her face away from me. Up until that seat cleared she had been sitting quite normally looking straight ahead. I also watch people while looking about and had noticed her nice shoes. Sure it could be a coincidence.

I think it's funny that people don't seem to believe that there are any natives in Tokyo who do not wish to closely encounter foreigners while going about their daily routine. If someone told me they encountered something similar in San Francisco I'd tell them they hit upon a rare instance but I wouldn't tell them it was impossible. People are funny, they have preferences. Who knows why they react the way they do.

The girl in the Micky Mouse ears was pointedly sneering, who knows why. The guys on the train were saying we were fat because we eat a lot of hamburgers. Each thing happened on totally separate trips over a five year period. But one odd occurrence or three does not color my view of a whole country. I just shrug it off and go on to the rest of my nice day.

I run across waaay more weird and random behavior riding the bus in my own city, my odd run-ins in Tokyo are rather innocent in comparison. After all, I didn't have to ride the subway with a half naked clown making suggestive balloon animals in Tokyo.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by edelweiss

I think it's funny that people don't seem to believe that there are any natives in Tokyo who do not wish to closely encounter foreigners while going about their daily routine. If someone told me they encountered something similar in San Francisco I'd tell them they hit upon a rare instance but I wouldn't tell them it was impossible. People are funny, they have preferences. Who knows why they react the way they do.

(....)

I run across waaay more weird and random behavior riding the bus in my own city, my odd run-ins in Tokyo are rather innocent in comparison. After all, I didn't have to ride the subway with a half naked clown making suggestive balloon animals in Tokyo.

But would you bring up the weird people you have encountered in your own home town as an example of how the US is weird, or how people there are racist/hostile/whatever? If someone from some other country was talking about how there were so many half naked people in the US with so much suggestive behavior... And someone popped up and said "Yeah, I saw them too when I rode the buses" because of one or two experiences over years of living there... Chances are others reading aren`t going to catch the "one experience in over a year" - all they`re going to see is "It happens all the time, it will happen to you."
I don`t believe it is impossible that this has happened to you and that similar things have happened to other people. The thing is, most of the time it probably doesn`t have anything to do with being a foreigner. Who knows, the lady on the train might just HATE having people anywhere near her and scowl at everyone. But the assumption is made that it is because you aren`t Japanese. For all we know she could just be some weird person randomly doing such things.
As for the fat because of hamburgers thing - welcome to the rest of the world. True or not, almost every country thinks that about the US. Unpleasant, but not what I would call "racism against foreigners" in Japan.

It`s the almost automatic assumption that foreigners make while in Japan that anything negative they experience is because they`re foreign. Not because there are weird people out there, not that it may just have been random, not that there are crazy people in every city/country... But because they are foreign and therefore it must be racism. This totally ignores the fact that similar stuff happens to Japanese people too.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I couldn't agree more. I'm exactly the same person here in Japan as I was back in my home country. I'm not going to change the person I am just so I fit in better. That doesn't mean being direspectful or arrogant. That's not the sort of person I am. But I'm not changing the way I dress or my personality just to be accepted more. Accept me as I am or not at all. Doesn't overly worry me.

Pretending to be someone you`re not just to fit in is one thing, being aware of the norms in the country you`re in and not doing things that go totally against them is another.
Do you do the exact same things even when it would go against the cultural and social norms of Japan? This is fine - if you`re prepared to be treated as if you`re doing something weird, as it is weird according to Japanese standards. But if you were to just act exactly as you did outside Japan and then expect to be treated as if your behavior was entirely normal... That is a problem.

I`m not saying this is what you do, but it`s pretty common. Foreigners come to Japan, act exactly as they did back home, and then get extremely irritated and frustrated by a) the weird habits of Japanese people, and b) being treated as if they`re doing something weird... Without ever realizing that they are the ones doing something odd from the Japanese perspective, and that all the "weird" habits of the Japanese people are normal.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am very confused by what you are saying, and I lived in Japan for a few years. I did not change the way I dress or the way I cut my hair. Why would you say that's what people in Japan expect.

It's your loss. You kept the same clothes for several years intead of going with the style around you? You diligently got a "Fantastic Sams" hair cut rather than let those Japanese experts do their thing? Japans people like to stick together. I bit you stood out like a soar thumb.

Originally Posted by MMM

Have you changed the way you dress or the way you cut your hair to live in the US? Did you toss out your clothes you bought in Japan and buy a whole new wardrobe? I seriously doubt it.

I don't throw things away, I'm not wasteful. But I buy cloths at least once a year. I buy my clothes like everyone else here: Old Navy, Walmart, The Gap etc.. People aren't like you. They want to fit into the society they live in.

Originally Posted by MMM

First of all, I live in the US. I can tell you first hand not everyone assimilates here. Maybe you live in southern California, where looking the the same is more important that the rest of the country, but believe, here is Portland, OR it is the opposite, so let's not talk about "America" as if it is one way of thinking. Here hair styles are not all the same, clothing is not all the same. Let's not confuse people.

I live in SoCal. I've been to Col, Texas, Florida, NY. They are all the Same. All have RedBox, Starbucks and 7-Elevens. All dress the same. All have same haircuts. All have illegal Mexicans(illegals start to look like Latinos as they assimilate also). Now, punk rockers look punk rock, Bikers look biker. Gang bangers have their look. That's a different thing. Those are niches. They deliberately dress apart to have an Identity.

I wouldn't be surprised if Portland Oregon was different from the rest of the states. Maybe you guess need some nation wide retail stores? Old Navy anyone?


How many Americans here?
Do you think Asians in America dress differently than anyone else? Or do you think everyone in America pretty much shops at the same malls and retails stores? I'm not talking individual tastes, I'm talking a noticeable clothing style deference among the different ethnic groups in America so you can tell without seeing face or skin color what race a person is by looking at his clothes.

In Little Tokyo I can tell the FOBs from Japan Vs the Nisei living in the states. The Nisei dress like anyone else in the U.S. and usually have a bit of a tan. The FOBs are still wearing the clothing from Japan, are much paler and have Japanese hair cuts.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

It's your loss. You kept the same clothes for several years intead of going with the style around you? You diligently got a "Fantastic Sams" hair cut rather than let those Japanese experts do their thing? Japans people like to stick together. I bit you stood out like a soar thumb.

Your superior attitude is not allowing you to read what I am actually saying, only what you want to read.

I didn't say I never got my haircut in Japan or never bought clothes in Japan. (But yes, I kept the same clothes for several years, and still wear some of the clothes I wore in Japan 15 years ago. Can you believe it?)

I said I didn't change my style in order to imitate the Japanese people around me. Trust me, the way many Japanese men wear their hair would NOT look good on non-Japanese. I would have stuck out more like a sore thumb if I had tried to imitate the fashion and hairstyles of the males around me.

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

I don't throw things away, I'm not wasteful. But I buy cloths at least once a year. I buy my clothes like everyone else here: Old Navy, Walmart, The Gap etc.. People aren't like you. They want to fit into the society they live in.

And when I was in Japan I bought my clothes in Japan. At the same time, I didn't toss out the clothes I brought from the US. The difference between a Uniqlo polo shirt and an Old Navy polo shirt is hardly distinctive.

When I taught international students in the US everyone used to love seeing the fashion senses from people from other countries. Especially the Japanese girls received a lot of praise from other girls for their fashion sense. I am sure those Japanese students are happy they didn't leave their clothes at home to to go Walmart for clothes. It wouldn't have been the same.

People aren't like you. They want to fit into the society they live in.

Really, where does this attitude come from? It is extremely rude. I fit in just fine during my years in Japan. I dressed conservatively at work, and relaxed on my time off. Nothing I wore was offensive, my hair was kept at a reasonable length. Who are you to tell me whether I fit in or not, or whether I had a good experience or not? Seriously.

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

I live in SoCal. I've been to Col, Texas, Florida, NY. They are all the Same. All have RedBox, Starbucks and 7-Elevens. All dress the same. All have same haircuts. All have illegal Mexicans(illegals start to look like Latinos as they assimilate also). Now, punk rockers look punk rock, Bikers look biker. Gang bangers have their look. That's a different thing. Those are niches. They deliberately dress apart to have an Identity.

I wouldn't be surprised if Portland Oregon was different from the rest of the states. Maybe you guess need some nation wide retail stores? Old Navy anyone?

You are quite the corporate shill. Yes, I have been to many parts of the US, as well. If you want to see everyone as dressing the same in Old Navy and the Gap, I am sure you will have no trouble. If all those places and all those people really were the same, why would anyone travel in the US? Do people wear cowboy boots in New York? 10-gallon hats in Colorado? No, people do not all dress the same after about the age of 17. But I am glad you are able to grasp that things in Portland might be different than So Cal. We have Old Navy, thank you. We reject Walmart, though. Always vote it down.

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

How many Americans here?
Do you think Asians in America dress differently than anyone else? Or do you think everyone in America pretty much shops at the same malls and retails stores? I'm not talking individual tastes, I'm talking a noticeable clothing style deference among the different ethnic groups in America so you can tell without seeing face or skin color what race a person is by looking at his clothes.

In Little Tokyo I can tell the FOBs from Japan Vs the Nisei living in the states. The Nisei dress like anyone else in the U.S. and usually have a bit of a tan. The FOBs are still wearing the clothing from Japan, are much paler and have Japanese hair cuts.

You talk like being new to America is a bad thing. (And some people take FOB as a derogatory term, so maybe it isn't the best word to use). It sounds to me like it is very important for you to fit in and not be noticed now that you live in the US (assuming you are actually from Japan), but don't project that attitude onto everyone else in the world. It sounds very strange.

Here's what I am getting: New arrivals from Japan wear Japanese fashion and have Japanese haircuts. So what? That makes them look like a new arrival (or as you would say, "FOB"). So what? That means they don't look like everyone else. So what? That means they don't fit into society. By what standards? Certainly not my standards. Certainly not the standards on most of the posters on Japan Forum.

If YOU do not accept new arrivals into your social circle or into society because of they way they dress or the way they cut their hair, that is YOUR hang-up. If YOU feel more comfortable in the US in Old Navy clothes, then that's fine for you. Just because I felt just fine and had no problems in Japan in Old Navy clothes doesn't mean I didn't fit in or I had any less of an experience there.

[dogsbody70]

excuse me what does FOB mean?

Ps there seems to be an awful lot of generalisation from chiuchimu-- everybody does this or wears that? REALLY? everybody?