remembering 9/11

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

If you really believe that is true: that you are desensitized to reality because of the violent movies and video games you play, then I weep for the future.

It is true. I have a strong conscience that recognises it and doesnt condone violence though so dont worry about me.

Unfortunately there are many that dont have such a conscience... so yeah... I wouldnt exactly say that I weep for the future.. but it wont be a very compassionate place.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by GoNative

No problem at all. Just pointing out that terrible things happen the world over all the time and the numbers involved in the 9/11 incident are comparitively small when even only compared to annual crime statistics in the US. You guys are far better at killing each other than any terrorists anyway!

You might find this hard to accept but not all of us are as affected by the deaths of a few thousand Americans. Just like most Americans will probably barely give a 2nd thought (assuming they've heard about it at all) about the 21 million or so people affected in the floods in Pakistan this monsoon season.

More people were killed in the fire-bombings of Tokyo than were killed in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sometimes it isn't the numbers of deaths that make an event noteworthy.

Assassinations are generally the killings of a single person, but few in America forget where they were when they heard that JFK or John Lennon were killed. I will never forget where I was when I heard Princess Diana had died. I was very young but I remember the day Elvis died very distinctly. If you want to throw a bunch of statistics up and say the 9/11 attack isn't a very distinctive event or worthy of the attention it has and will continue to get throughout our lifetimes, I would say you are being a little naive.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

It is true. I have a strong conscience that recognises it and doesnt condone violence though so dont worry about me.

Unfortunately there are many that dont have such a conscience... so yeah... I wouldnt exactly say that I weep for the future.. but it wont be a very compassionate place.

If the future is a place of people without compassion, then that is worth weeping over.

However, I don't think that is actually true. I think younger people today like to fantasize about how thick their skin is...but I don't think it is as true as they would like to think.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

If the future is a place of people without compassion, then that is worth weeping over.

However, I don't think that is actually true. I think younger people today like to fantasize about how thick their skin is...but I don't think it is as true as they would like to think.

I was speaking in a context of watching stuff happen on TV. The real footage vs the fake.

Anyway.. cant argue with the evidence.

This link was something I just googled but its findings are similar to ones Ive seen before on the issue.

YMA - Violent Video Games and Other Media Violence: Craig Anderson answers FAQs

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I was speaking in a context of watching stuff happen on TV. The real footage vs the fake.

You are not a member of the first "video generation" and I still think you can make the distinction between fantasy and reality.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are not a member of the first "video generation" and I still think you can make the distinction between fantasy and reality.

Well of course I can make the distinction. Thats what I meant by the conscience thing.

Im just saying that had I not been conditioned by movies etc. My first initial, gut reaction to 9-11 might have been "OMG.. all those people inside!" instead of "God damn! A plane just slammed into a building and took it out dude!".

However due to the conscience that I have... I was able to check that initial gut reaction.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Well of course I can make the distinction. Thats what I meant by the conscience thing.

Im just saying that had I not been conditioned by movies etc. My first initial, gut reaction to 9-11 might have been "OMG.. all those people inside!" instead of "God damn! A plane just slammed into a building and took it out dude!".

However due to the conscience that I have... I was able to check that initial gut reaction.

With fear of hijacking the thread, let me ask, why do you think you would be that "conditioned" by movies when previous generations would not be?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

With fear of hijacking the thread, let me ask, why do you think you would be that "conditioned" by movies when previous generations would not be?

What makes you think previous generations werent?

In the book "Superfreakonomics" (followup to the bestseller "Freakonomics") they make a comparison between violent crime rates and the introduction of television accross the US.

Since TV was introduced accross the US at different times, it was interesting to note that a rise in crime followed the introduction of Television all accross the states.

Coincidence? Maybe... though that would be an awfully big one.

I will say that images in the movies and on TV have become a lot more vivid and realistic in their portrayal in recent years though.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

What makes you think previous generations werent?

In the book "Superfreakonomics" (followup to the bestseller "Freakonomics") they make a comparison between violent crime rates and the introduction of television accross the US.

Since TV was introduced accross the US at different times, it was interesting to note that a rise in crime followed the introduction of Television all accross the states.

Coincidence? Maybe... though that would be an awfully big one.

I will say that images in the movies and on TV have become a lot more vivid and realistic in recent years though.

I have read both those books, and although that is an interesting notion, it is hard to prove considering what was on TV at the time.

Actually I think images in many movies have become LESS realistic in recent years since many directors started depending on CG. Video games look more real, but I don't think anyone would say they look real.

Many would agree they are much more frightened by lower budget movies like Blair Witch Project...but if you can, look back in history. Movies like Psycho scared the pants off of people. The Exorcist scared the pants off of people. The movies made today are not scarier than some of the greats from the past. However the people scared by Psycho and The Exorcist have not made a break from the reality of what they see on TV.

My point is, to say "things are more realistic on the big screen now" is simply a false argument, as I would say they are NOT more realistic now. You don't watch a movie thinking you are watching something real. I can watch something like Saw and enjoy it, but if I had any inkling that it was actually real, I would be completely disgusted and horrified. I don't think your generation is so sad as they cannot make that distinction. If you choose not to care, you choose not to care. But don't blame movies and video games for your apathy.

[Ronin4hire]

I dont think you are reading what I wrote.

I dont CHOOSE not to care because obviously my CONSCIENCE kicks in and reminds me what is real and what is not.

I have been conditioned to violence though because my INITIAL GUT REACTION was not "shock"... but "awe" so to speak.

Do I think video games and movies cause violence? No I dont... at least not directly.

But evidence shows that they probably have an INDIRECT effect on society in the way I mentioned.