What does 'setsunai' mean to you?

[steven]

Have you guys heard the song "miss you" by M-flo? I like that song because it has a lot of implementation of "interlanguage" which is something that a lot of study abroad students and I used a lot of. I got into m-flo when I started getting serious about learning Japanese... I really wasn't a big fan of that kind of music to begin with, but I started to like it after a while and I've really come to appreciate the language that they use.

One of the great things about interlanguage is that it allows for usage of words or feelings that you wouldn't be able to express in your L2. It is my opinion that some words or feelings are just easier to express in some languages. The phrase "miss you" just works better in English. At the same time, words like "せつない" or "なつかしい" or other things like that work better in Japanese.

[chiuchimu]

^ M-Flo "Miss you" with Ryohei and Melody. I love the PV.

Yeah, a simple 'miss you' in Japanese doesn't translate will. It can be expressed like Aitakata but not exactly the same. Likewise, is there a single English word for natsukashi, umami, gambarimashyo or mendou kusai?

Each language reveals something about the people.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

^ M-Flo "Miss you" with Ryohei and Melody. I love the PV.

Yeah, a simple 'miss you' in Japanese doesn't translate will. It can be expressed like Aitakata but not exactly the same. Likewise, is there a single English word for natsukashi, umami, gambarimashyo or mendou kusai?

Each language reveals something about the people.

Here's how I've seen/heard them dealt with. Generally, there's not one single word.

なつかしい- nostalgic. Only difference is that english speakers don't go "ah, nostalgic," when they hear something なつかしい in quite the same way that Japanese speakers do.

うまみ- savory. This seems to make more sense to some American English speakers, as British English speakers use 'savory' as a general taste term more frequently.

がんばりましょ- Do your best. We just don't really use it quite as often, or for such varied situations as it is in Japanese.

めんどくさい- *laughs* If I had to condense it to one word, it'd probably be 'arse'. As in めんどくさいな "I can't be arsed." But then if the situation is that something is being troublesome (仕事はめんどくさいよ) you're more likely to say "a pain in the arse". So there is a differentiation.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Here's how I've seen/heard them dealt with. Generally, there's not one single word.

なつかしい- nostalgic. Only difference is that english speakers don't go "ah, nostalgic," when they hear something なつかしい in quite the same way that Japanese speakers do.

うまみ- savory. This seems to make more sense to some American English speakers, as British English speakers use 'savory' as a general taste term more frequently.

がんばりましょ- Do your best. We just don't really use it quite as often, or for such varied situations as it is in Japanese.

めんどくさい- *laughs* If I had to condense it to one word, it'd probably be 'arse'. As in めんどくさいな "I can't be arsed." But then if the situation is that something is being troublesome (仕事はめんどくさいよ) you're more likely to say "a pain in the arse". So there is a differentiation.

So there are English words for each, yet they aren't really used in the same way in English. Specially the last two. Can you imagine telling an American, "Try your best". It's almost an insult. The guy would ask, "What did you think I was going to do? Do a half ass job?!". We Japanese use mendou kusai so much I wonder if we aren't the lazy ones at heart ?

[steven]

If you flip open a dictionary there will always be something there for words. This word = that word. It's hardly reality... and it's often misleading for learners. Chiuchimu is right, you wouldn't really use those types of words in the same way in either language. You don't hear people saying "nostaligic!" when they see some old thing they used to like. It might be a nostalgic movie or toy or whatever, but you wouldn't call it that outloud in the present tense, so to speak. You don't hear people voice things like "おつかれ" or "おさきに" or "ビビッタ！" as much in English. Going into the world of 擬態語 will reveal a whole other realm of language that just doesn't exist in English (with a few exceptions if you look hard enough I'm sure).

I'm gonna stray a little bit and go as far as to say that I've heard people say that Japanese is a culture of holding back expression etc etc zen peace yadayadayada. While that might be true on some levels, I think there are many areas language wise that allows a Japanese person to really let out what they're feeling more so than English speakers. The opposite is also true of course, but I find myself trying to say a certain Japanese word that I use in English more so than trying to say a certain English word I know in Japanese. It could just be a result of me using Japanese more than English though too.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

So there are English words for each, yet they aren't really used in the same way in English. Specially the last two. Can you imagine telling an American, "Try your best". It's almost an insult. The guy would ask, "What did you think I was going to do? Do a half ass job?!". We Japanese use mendou kusai so much I wonder if we aren't the lazy ones at heart ?

Yeah, we use things quite differently, even if we can translate it! I still might say "do your best" to a friend who was worried about an exam or something though, and I don't think that would be odd. It's easy to get confused between American English and British English uses of words too. I used to get so annoyed at my American friends when they'd say "Oh, I'm sorry," after telling them bad news. I kept thinking "Why are you apologizing? It's got nothing to do with you!" but it's just how some Americans like to express sympathy.

Amongst some of my japanese-speaking friends, even if we're speaking english, we don't bother to translate some Japanese words like 'genki' any more. It just makes more sense left in Japanese.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by steven

I'm gonna stray a little bit and go as far as to say that I've heard people say that Japanese is a culture of holding back expression etc etc zen peace yadayadayada. While that might be true on some levels, I think there are many areas language wise that allows a Japanese person to really let out what they're feeling more so than English speakers. The opposite is also true of course, but I find myself trying to say a certain Japanese word that I use in English more so than trying to say a certain English word I know in Japanese. It could just be a result of me using Japanese more than English though too.

Yes, like 'Chan' "Momokochanwa do?" Vs "Momokosanwa dodesuka?"
Then, English has two wonderful word 'you' and 'I'. In Japan you have to use the correct form of 'you' or 'I' or it comes off sounding wrong. A lot of older first generation Japanese-Americans speak in Japanese but use 'you' or 'I'. like, " YOUwa ne, mochoto..."

Originally Posted by Columbine

Yeah, we use things quite differently, even if we can translate it! I still might say "do your best" to a friend who was worried about an exam or something though, and I don't think that would be odd. It's easy to get confused between American English and British English uses of words too. I used to get so annoyed at my American friends when they'd say "Oh, I'm sorry," after telling them bad news. I kept thinking "Why are you apologizing? It's got nothing to do with you!" but it's just how some Americans like to express sympathy.

Amongst some of my japanese-speaking friends, even if we're speaking english, we don't bother to translate some Japanese words like 'genki' any more. It just makes more sense left in Japanese.

Yeah that new post amazed me. I didn't think about the real world difference of American Vs British English. In America, the 'sorry' stems from the phrase "I'm sorry for your lose". now, its shorten to 'sorry'. Instead of an apology, it means an expression of sorrow here in the U.S. Is "sorry' used mostly for apologies in the U.K.?

Among my Japanese-American friends, we speak in English. but a lot of Japanese words get thrown in too! Like genki, arigato, iyada, ganbare, ikuzo, oishii, umai, chikushou, etc...

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

Yeah that new post amazed me. I didn't think about the real world difference of American Vs British English. In America, the 'sorry' stems from the phrase "I'm sorry for your lose". now, its shorten to 'sorry'. Instead of an apology, it means an expression of sorrow here in the U.S. Is "sorry' used mostly for apologies in the U.K.?

Yes. If I were to say "My boyfriend dumped me yesterday (TnT) ", my American friends might say "I'm sorry," but all my British friends would say something different, like "Oh how awful," or "Oh no! What happened? Are you alright?". *laughs* If one of them said "I'm sorry," I'd probably ask "Why, what did you do?!"

A lot of my friends are Japanese-language students, so we muddle Japanese up with english as well, "Come on guys, we're late! Let's get ikimashou-ing!"

[steven]

Yea Columbine... I never knew how different British English was from American English until having conversations with English people in Japan. Let's just say we spend a lot of our time making fun of each other.

chiuchimu, not to ask too much 個人情報, but whereabouts in southern CA are you? I'm from that area so... I wonder if we know some of the same people

[cranks]

せつない is a cliche for me. I don't recall me actually thinking 「せつねえ…」 or something like that in real life. I'll be more like 「つれえ…（辛い）」or 「胸が苦しい…」.

「懐かしい」 on the other hand is a word that frequently pops up in my mind and I don't have a good translation for. Yeah, I can say "nostalgic" but it isn't the same...

I was in Japan last week and there was this guy walking in front of me with his hip swinging right and left like he was cat walking. The word popped up in my mind was 「プリッ！プリッ！」. I don't have a good translation for that ether.