What does 'setsunai' mean to you?

[chiuchimu]

Dictionary translation aside - so I'm talking to people who lived/live in Japan and understand the word without looking it up.

Have you felt setsunasa? Is this common in your country or a peculiar Japanese feeling?

[MMM]

"Setsunai" or "Setsunasa"?

The difference is slight, but you are asking two different questions.

[chiuchimu]

Whichever word form. Even 'setsunaku' is OK. A friend into Jpop asked me about the word since it pops up in songs a lot.

For those who don't know what the word means. its means "very sad because of helplessness" or "crushed by something and not being able to change the situation".

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

Whichever word form. Even 'setsunaku' is OK. A friend into Jpop asked me about the word since it pops up in songs a lot.

For those who don't know what the word means. its means "very sad because of helplessness" or "crushed by something and not being able to change the situation".

It sounds a bit like the kind of situation I would describe as "being caught between a rock and a hard place". I can't think of a particular word for the emotion though.

[chiuchimu]

Yeah, I'd say that's a good discription.

Just that I think we Japanese use it a lot. I never here too many American songs say "rock and a hard place" though it might be implied.

I wonder if Japanese society creates more situations for setsunai feeling to occur?

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

Yeah, I'd say that's a good discription.

Just that I think we Japanese use it a lot. I never here too many American songs say "rock and a hard place" though it might be implied.

I wonder if Japanese society creates more situations for setsunai feeling to occur?

Mmm, true. I can't think of any songs that use the expression. I think it is a lot more implied rather than just said outright, but I don't listen to enough music to really know. Song-writing seems to go through trends though, so maybe it is true that setsunai resonates with a lot of people in Japan at the moment. Could be the reverse; that elsewhere people just don't feel sad or helpless in the same kinds of situations. Like maybe a Japanese song writer might put something like "The girl I love doesn't love me, setsunai", whereas an American songwriter might put...i don't know, "B**** won't love me!" *laughs*

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Mmm, true. I can't think of any songs that use the expression. I think it is a lot more implied rather than just said outright, but I don't listen to enough music to really know. Song-writing seems to go through trends though, so maybe it is true that setsunai resonates with a lot of people in Japan at the moment. Could be the reverse; that elsewhere people just don't feel sad or helpless in the same kinds of situations. Like maybe a Japanese song writer might put something like "The girl I love doesn't love me, setsunai", whereas an American songwriter might put...i don't know, "B**** won't love me!" *laughs*

rofl

I have this cousin, a few years back he wanted to get married to the girl he loved in college. But the parents of the girl refused unless he dropped his last name to take theirs and come take over the family business. He went to University to become a pharmacist and didn't want to give up his last name. The marriage got cancelled. It was a very setsunai episode in my cousins life.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

rofl

I have this cousin, a few years back he wanted to get married to the girl he loved in college. But the parents of the girl refused unless he dropped his last name to take theirs and come take over the family business. He went to University to become a pharmacist and didn't want to give up his last name. The marriage got cancelled. It was a very setsunai episode in my cousins life.

That's really harsh. :< Well, by my standards anyway. Is that particularly common, or did your cousin just fall into an unusually difficult situation? My friend had a similar experience, come to think of it. They weren't engaged but her boyfriend, who she really loved, couldn't accept her (admittedly very complicated) family. She couldn't very well ditch her family, but there were fundamental problems between her mother and her boyfriend that neither party could overcome, so the relationship fell apart in the end. It was pretty sad. Neither wanted it, but well... there you go.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by Columbine

That's really harsh. :< Well, by my standards anyway. Is that particularly common, or did your cousin just fall into an unusually difficult situation? My friend had a similar experience, come to think of it. They weren't engaged but her boyfriend, who she really loved, couldn't accept her (admittedly very complicated) family. She couldn't very well ditch her family, but there were fundamental problems between her mother and her boyfriend that neither party could overcome, so the relationship fell apart in the end. It was pretty sad. Neither wanted it, but well... there you go.

Yes, that's like setsunai. i think setsunai for Japanese isn't a physical brick wall in most cases. Instead, its social circumstance that cannot be over come or ignored. Like in your friend or my cousins case, if one of the three parties, boy,girl or family, stood down, everything would be OK. But, socially, we can't ask our families to stand down(up to a point). Girl can't break her bond with family, boy can't learn to accept her family. There is nothing that can be done.

My cousins fiance was an adopted child. Her parents adopted her for the sole purpose that she carry on the family Inn because they could not make any children of their own. She was allowed to go off to college not only to learn, but also that she might meet someone and bring back a husband that would take over the family business with her. That was her parents plan. She met my cousin in college but he had plans for his own future. He wanted her to run away with him, but she couldn't disrespect the parents that cared for her so she broke off the marriage.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

My cousins fiance was an adopted child. Her parents adopted her for the sole purpose that she carry on the family Inn because they could not make any children of their own. She was allowed to go off to college not only to learn, but also that she might meet someone and bring back a husband that would take over the family business with her. That was her parents plan. She met my cousin in college but he had plans for his own future. He wanted her to run away with him, but she couldn't disrespect the parents that cared for her so she broke off the marriage.

TBH, I'm starting to question your own Japanese knowledge here.

That would not be described with the word せつない by the majority of Japanese-speakers. The situation is just way too heavy to call せつない.

せつない has a much lighter (and often poetic) feel to it. It isn't used for a tragedy.

NOTE: In case the people involved in this incident or those who have heard the story don't feel it's as tragic and distressful as I'm feeling, they might use the word to describe it.