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11-10-2010, 11:07 PM
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Anyway,IMHO this whole thing has blown up from some stupid subjective spam opinion thread- neither someone's overall opinion of Japan, how they live their life nor the worth of their input on JF should be based on a one-word answer, regardless of whether it is positive or negative. It's wholly puerile- seriously, this is what kids do in the playground "You said 'bottom'! I'm telling on you~" Particularly not when the original response was heavily pegged with a disclaiming "but it's not just Japan." Actually, I'm MORE surprised (and a little disappointed) you haven't been called out on your outrageously sexist comment yet, Wings. "Before you have your period"? Really? How rude. 
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11-11-2010, 12:12 AM
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Sorry about the remark. I just chose an inappropriate "sexist" metaphor for what has actually happened. My photos from Japan and around the world: http://www.flickr.com/dylanwphotography
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11-11-2010, 12:23 AM
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That being said, people hate people for their opinions every day. I hate racists because they hate people simply based on their skin color. I haven't read negative post to your opinions, but I don't know if it is about not being what someone wants to hear, or that the person disagrees with your conclusions.
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11-11-2010, 12:29 AM
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11-11-2010, 12:46 AM
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I love snow and skiing which is why I live in Hokkaido I don't think I am saying anything other than no one has said "love everything about Japan, or you are a hater." You are very critical of anyone with a passion for Japan that is greater than yours, and seem to make a point of bursting every bubble possible. Being a realist is fine, but being critical for the sake of being critical may lead to some criticism, which is what we have seen.
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11-11-2010, 12:53 AM
I find this thread a bit strange, as I`ve been told by Gonative that I must think Japan is a utopia simply because I don`t go out of my way to say negative things about the country.
 Anyway though - I think a lot of it comes down to presentation. You can say something negative about a certain aspect of life, a certain problem, etc - without saying something negative about the whole country. There are indeed things I don`t like, experiences I have not enjoyed, but that doesn`t lead me to apply those to all of the rest of the country and it`s people. It`s sort of like individual vs. group. Disliking a specific person for a direct reason is one thing, saying you dislike all the people in the same race/group/nationality because of your experiences with that one person is another. It`s also like sort of like being asked why you dislike that person, and giving the answer of "Because they`re them!" instead of actually looking at and thinking about the real reasons. Japanese people in Japan who do not like aspects of life will complain about specific aspects of life - not "Japan sucks" or "Japanese people suck". They don`t generally pull out some comparison to how things are in some other country and tell you how much better things are done there. The reasons something in life sucks isn`t because it`s Japan - it`s because of the actual real reasons. Not to mention that it`s almost entirely a matter of opinion. Saying "Japan is terrible in such and such way" is quite different from "I don`t like how such and such is done in Japan". Sometimes, actually understanding the reasons will bring more sense to the whole situation, if not alleviate the problem altogether. And there is a level of understanding of culture and language that is required to do this. Why is pointing out that things have reasons that are not always obvious considered worshiping the country? Why is offering experiences that aren`t riddled with the countless rumors of horrific racism considered thinking the country a utopia? I have also been told that I was a Japanophile for pointing out that the same issues happen in other countries, in exactly the same way, so it wasn`t a Japan issue - but somehow to the complainer it was only a negative when applied to Japan. One of these that stood out in my mind was when I answered factually why something was the way it was (something I personally didn`t like) - and I was told that I was delusional about Japan being a great place. It was a surprise as none of the information I presented was in favor of the issue - but then I realized... It wasn`t negative either! There is a strong expectation that if you actually live in Japan you will have tons of negative things to say about it. And if you don`t, you`re either lying about being in Japan or some weird Japan worshiper. I generally answer with positive information after negative information has already been offered. Usually it`s either the OP says that they heard Japan was terrible in such and such way, or they ask a question and someone else jumps up to the plate and tells them that Japan sucks in some way (or entirely). I see a LOT more people with incredibly negative thoughts about Japan than people who think it is a utopia. Especially in person - living in Japan I regularly encounter foreigners who are told that Japan sucks in some way and who internalize that without ever actually forming their own opinion based on personal experience. They look for examples of what they`ve been told - and if the information pouring in is negative, everywhere negativity is seen. A simple and true example - I`ve met people who have been told that the reason Japanese people will bow instead of shake hands with them is because they`re afraid of contracting gaijin germs. Despite the fact that bowing is the norm they will call it racist as they have been told (by other foreigners "in the know") that it is a racist gesture. It`s entirely their right to dislike the lack of hand shakes - but it`s an odd leap to consider it a terrible flaw of society and that people who do it suck. Pointing out that people usually bow instead of shake hands largely eliminated the daily feelings of discrimination, and somehow magically made it possible for them to notice that it wasn`t just them. The majority of complaints about life in Japan aren`t so simple, but there tends to be a connecting thread between them of limited personal experience and language/cultural misunderstandings - with a dash of negative preconceptions. At the very least it helps to shift through any misunderstandings, misconceptions, etc to get to the actual opinion underneath.
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11-11-2010, 12:54 AM
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As far as your racism example, it's my fault for not being specific. I often generalize based on the assumption we're talking in an intellectual medium. Something like racism doesn't even come to mind to me because it's a given to not agree with something like that. But in regards to more subjective topics, my first post is more applicable. My photos from Japan and around the world: http://www.flickr.com/dylanwphotography
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11-11-2010, 01:33 AM
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I've definitely been told on more than one occassion on here that because I'm not totally fluent in the language I shouldn't comment on anything because I just can't possibly understand enough to make informed comments. To me though I actually don't need to totally understand the reasons behind why things are done the way they are here. If I don't like them well I don't like them. Understanding the reasons why they are done that way makes no difference, I still don't like them! I of course accept things are done in different ways here due to cultural differences but that doesn't mean I like them. A forum like this allows me to get out some of the frustrations I find with living here. But it appears that just brings down a whole lot of criticism and questioning why you live here and attempts to discredit any views you have because you lack the cultural or language understanding to have such views. This comes back to why I started this thread. It appears for many on this forum you either have to love every aspect of your life here (or at least only ever talk about the good aspects) or you're labelled as someone who hates Japan and the Japanese. Or maybe if I said I love Japan because of the fashion, the manga, the anime, the technology, the cute girls, the cosplay, the absolutely completely and utterly amazing culture it would all be ok? Loving a place just for the landscapes and climate is just too weird huh? 
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11-11-2010, 01:39 AM
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I don't appreciate the notion that we are not speaking in an intellectual medium, or that you are and I am not. My point is, people argue over opinions here. Some people share them in ways that incite a stronger response than others. I would say your posts do tend to incite spirited responses. Either accept that, or don't be as incendiary with what you say.
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