Love everything or you're a hater?

[GoNative]

For me my relationship with Japan is similar to my relationship with my wife. I love them both dearly but both have many little things that can be annoying as hell. And like with a marriage little things over time can become more and more annoying. They are little but you need to talk about them. Doesn't mean you can always resolve these annoyances but talking about them helps.

[CoolNard]

Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi

-

Thesaurus all over my head.

That's my 2cent.

Sorry, I don't understand your one-liner summations. I don't wanna assume again, so...

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

Unless you speak for the person who initially posed the question is it your right to tell us it was rhetorical i.e. that nobody should have answered it?

It's not my right to make you guys adhere to my opinions, but it is my right to post them, within the boundaries of the rules. Besides, from a neutral, unemotional perspective, I was only stating facts. Love everything or hate everything? Who can, honestly? That question is not only rhetorical, it's a paradox. But more than anything, that question, I believe, was meant for us to think about what we hate or love, and why.

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

Facts are good and opinions are interesting though some people misconstrue opinions and feelings for facts. Speaking of facts where are your facts on how someone who hates doesn't want to live anymore? Or is this more of a feeling you get when you imagine how someone would feel who is a constant hater? You ask what their purpose is so I am assuming you aren't a perpetual hater but maybe their purpose is to hate, to play devil's advocate, or just to not "get your hopes up" because as soon as you do you're let down.

How can someone who has nothing to live for, rather, hates every single thing, including his own life, want to live? Pray do tell. If no one has an answer for me, or if it hasn't happened, then it's still a fact. It's not a feeling, it's knowledge I've gained after various discussions on similar concepts. You don't understand. I'm taking an extreme point of view here, since the thread implies "everything". Going by your alleged claims, those people still possess a love or reason for doing something, which is the reason I think there is no such thing as a complete hater.

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

Speaking of totally derailing something into an opinion...you took someone's question, berated everyone for answering a rhetorical question, posted your feelings on how a hater would feel, and then berated people for speaking about opinions rather than sticking to facts.

"berated everyone"? No, please read my comment, again. I only said that because I didn't doubt anyone's intelligence on this forum. Have you seen anyone actually giving an absolute answer prior to hating or loving everything? Look, really, read my entire post before you berate me. I understand where you're coming from; no, I understood, that's why I didn't include those conditions and exceptions about being opinionated for nothing. And for the record, I wasn't derailing. What you probably mean is 'flamming', although I didn't do that, too.

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

Your opinion is to speak only on facts and logical calculations because you believe that it is a factual statement that facts and logical calculations are the "right" way to communicate. However, I think it's good to talk about opinions, experiences, people's assumptions, and beliefs but just as long as we realize that they are in fact these and not something else.

I rest my case on how you've wrongly accused me, but I won't blame you; my post was quite lengthy, after all. I agree with you that sharing opinions, experiences, etc can be good, but as you have already justified for me, "as long as we realize that they are in fact these". That in itself is a fact.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by GoNative

For me my relationship with Japan is similar to my relationship with my wife. I love them both dearly but both have many little things that can be annoying as hell. And like with a marriage little things over time can become more and more annoying. They are little but you need to talk about them. Doesn't mean you can always resolve these annoyances but talking about them helps.

YOu Know GN--I think that says it all really---------- not only about Japan but everywhere in the world. we human beings are simply that--------we have feeling, emotions, needs,None of us are perfect-- thank heaven. How boring that would be.


If one is fortunate enough to live in an area where you are fulfilled that is an enormous bonus. Nobody should be judging you for loving where you are and what you do.

Not many of us have that so its great that You do.


even in our own country our own street-- there are differences-- we have minds of our own-- one mans meat--another's poison etc.


Iknow that I am far from perfect-- that our country also-- many things that

are not good-- but on the other hand I wish to remain here for the rest of my life. If there were a magic carpet that could whizz me to Japan and other countries and with hardly any cost-- I would like to do that-- but that will never happen fo rme LOL.


Our japanese friend adores this country-- UK--its people etc-- she says are so kind-- and you know I believe that most people inside their own hearts are also kind and generous. She will not be allowed to remain here.

humans are complex creatures. the same as countries.

[HikoSeijuro]

Originally Posted by CoolNard

But more than anything, that question, I believe, was meant for us to think about what we hate or love, and why.

You are interpreting someone's question based on your personal paradigm on life as being the paradigm that everyone sees through and then assuming that this interpretation is fact. It might be, it might be just your interpretation, but the very fact you said "I believe" now shows this is a feeling and NOT empirical data.


"It's not a feeling, it's knowledge I've gained after various discussions on similar concepts. ... which is the reason I think there is no such thing as a complete hater."
I see no factual statements here. I guess someone reading your statements is just supposed to assume that you, as well as the people you have had 'various discussions' with, are experts on the subject. This issue has nothing to do with whether or not there can be someone who loves everything or hates everything but that you are taking your personal belief, assuming it is true (regardless of how obvious it may seem to be true), and then passing it off as true while also asking people to communicate using empirical data. I see no empirical data.

A)
I rest my case on how you've wrongly accused me, but I won't blame you; my post was quite lengthy, after all. I agree with you that sharing opinions, experiences, etc can be good, but as you have already justified for me, "as long as we realize that they are in fact these". That in itself is a fact.
B)
Stick to facts and logical calculations, when addressing the masses, who aren't your personal penpal. No matter how you relay that information, facts are empirical and can't be subjective.

Paragraph A) seems to imply that opinions and experiences can be viewed as a "fact" but then this would contradict your statement in paragraph B) that facts are empirical and can’t be subjective. If you are wondering how? Opinions and experiences are subjective.

Speaking on giving reading advice perhaps it's good to get into re-reading your previous posts. Please don't think it's a snide remark, said condescendingly, or in a berating type of manner...I am just kind hearted and caring like you were being when you said you don't blame me for having trouble understanding your previous post because of the length! It was such a long post full of so many words!

[CoolNard]

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

You are interpreting someone's question based on your personal paradigm on life as being the paradigm that everyone sees through and then assuming that this interpretation is fact. It might be, it might be just your interpretation, but the very fact you said "I believe" now shows this is a feeling and NOT empirical data.

I didn't say what I thought this thread to be was empirical data. My paradigm, my assumptions, my opinions, my perspectives, my hypothesis, my theory - yes, they're mine, I've already told you that I have a right to post my opinions and that I was posting them, avoiding trespassing into prohibition. But the point I was making, that you ignited, is that this thread's question is rhetorical and paradoxical, even the OP suggests that; go read it. If you're speaking about my rights, then it was and is my right, as a member and a mod, to tell you and remind you. Oh, and I didn't say "nobody should have answered it", go read that part, too.

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

"It's not a feeling, it's knowledge I've gained after various discussions on similar concepts. ... which is the reason I think there is no such thing as a complete hater."
I see no factual statements here. I guess someone reading your statements is just supposed to assume that you, as well as the people you have had 'various discussions' with, are experts on the subject. This issue has nothing to do with whether or not there can be someone who loves everything or hates everything but that you are taking your personal belief, assuming it is true (regardless of how obvious it may seem to be true), and then passing it off as true while also asking people to communicate using empirical data. I see no empirical data.

This issue has everything to do with the thread topic, because without that, I wouldn't be using that as a basis to defend myself against your fallacies. I don't need to use empirical data with common knowledge. Going by standard definitions, to hate or love everything is simply rhetorical and paradoxical, unless you require the extra service of me using those orthodox definitions to articulate every single example, metaphor and anecdote, of a balanced span of scenarios and semantics, to prove the facts. Again (with my justifications in my previous post), I don't just ask "people to communicate using empirical data."

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

A)
I rest my case on how you've wrongly accused me, but I won't blame you; my post was quite lengthy, after all. I agree with you that sharing opinions, experiences, etc can be good, but as you have already justified for me, "as long as we realize that they are in fact these". That in itself is a fact.
B)
Stick to facts and logical calculations, when addressing the masses, who aren't your personal penpal. No matter how you relay that information, facts are empirical and can't be subjective.

Paragraph A) seems to imply that opinions and experiences can be viewed as a "fact" but then this would contradict your statement in paragraph B) that facts are empirical and can’t be subjective. If you are wondering how? Opinions and experiences are subjective.

Okay, I should have elaborated, although I thought it was grammatically clear and that you'd fall asleep reading it. The fact, that I was referring to in the first quote, is the fact that they are only opinions, and not necessarily factual. I understand it may be a mouthful to comprehend at first glance, but I basically paraphrased you, although I did not tweak your sentence in any manner; I'm surprised you'd misunderstand your own points.

Originally Posted by HikoSeijuro

Speaking on giving reading advice perhaps it's good to get into re-reading your previous posts. Please don't think it's a snide remark, said condescendingly, or in a berating type of manner...I am just kind hearted and caring like you were being when you said you don't blame me for having trouble understanding your previous post because of the length! It was such a long post full of so many words!

Thanks, Hiko - can I call you that? I'm not as mad and long-winded a person as you're probably making me out to be, and reading your other unrelated posts, I figured you're a nice, reasonable guy. I just loathe being misunderstood, when I say what I have to say, and so get pretty defensive & verbal. I don't need to re-read my own comments because I know what I said, and evidently, I could correct your interpretations here.

EDIT: GoNative, sorry to turn your thread into an argument, hope you don't mind. If there's anything you wanna say prior to this, feel free to.

[dogsbody70]

so much of this is way above my head.

I believe we were asked if we loved or hated Japan-- or certain aspects of JAPAN.

As I have never been there I cannot say.

[GoNative]

I actually started the thread because I was labelled a 'hater' of Japan due to some of my criticisms I've made about the country. I was questioning why it seems that any criticism automatically seems to get you labelled as such. It appeared to me that unless you confess undying love of everything Japanese you run the risk of being labelled a hater on this forum. Something I clearly believe is ridiculous.

[dogsbody70]

HI GN.

I would think that could be said about every country-- town --person etc. Nobody or nothing is Perfect.

Our country definitely is NOT. I am not. There are many things I believe is wrong with our country and our present government with its new crazy money saving schemes.


If we think that all is perfect then we are wearing those rose coloured spectacles.

I guess its like My saying something derogotory about my child but heaven help anyone ELSE that says the same thing.

we rush to protect our own-- thats the crux I believe.


I would hope that with communication as there is these days-- that we could learn to understand one another better

[CoolNard]

@dogsbody Wasn't he only using Japan as an example? There were also general statements in the opening post.

Originally Posted by GoNative

I actually started the thread because I was labelled a 'hater' of Japan due to some of my criticisms I've made about the country. I was questioning why it seems that any criticism automatically seems to get you labelled as such. It appeared to me that unless you confess undying love of everything Japanese you run the risk of being labelled a hater on this forum. Something I clearly believe is ridiculous.

Exactly my point. No one can love or hate everything, everything Japanese included. I agree with dogsbody on this: nothing is perfect. From my point of view, if everything is imperfect, how can one hate everything? If nothing is perfect, can everyone love nothing, then?

I hate wasabi, but that doesn't mean I'm a 360 degrees hater of Japan.

Once again, sorry for disrupting your thread. But apparently, Hiko disagrees with the notion that it is a fact. So, I still believe we're on-topic.

[dogsbody70]

my reading is that it is a questionabout loving or hating things Japanese.

We are all capable of loving and hating many things in life.

Really I think it was because someone seems to have labelled GN as a japanese hater because of some remarks or criticisms he has apparently made.

I just take his word for that. It is like protecting our OWN really we jump in to defend something we love if somebody else seems to criticise it-- whatever it may be.

I cannot follow your discussions Coolnard with others-- its way beyond my simple brain.