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11-22-2010, 05:16 PM
If someone refuses to learn Japanese after 7 years of living in Japan, to me that is a good sign of a bad immigrant if not of a hater. I'm sure OP would think the same way if someone emigrated to Australia and refused to learn English even after 7 years of living there and criticized so many aspects of the country online all day like OP does about Japan.
GoNative? LMAO What's so native about him? 
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11-26-2010, 06:43 AM
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A superior psychology, mastery of self, and a clean arse are the keys to happiness.
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11-26-2010, 08:23 AM
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Those who arrive first often form their own little communities largely because of the language difficulties. For instance when I was growing up in the 70's there was a huge influx of Vietnamese refugees after the war. Initially they formed fairly close nit communities not far from the immigration processing centres. Few could speak english and in their communities whole streets would be lined with businesses purely set up to cater to that community. Many proprieters of the businesses didn't even speak english. A couple of generations on though those communities have spread out and integrated and these Australians of Vietnamese decent barely even have any accent that would distinguish them from any other Australian. Many of the older Vietnamese who were the first arrivals though still don't speak good english some 30-40 years after arriving in Australia, they have never needed to to have a good life. Exactly the same thing occurred when there was a big influx of Italians and Greeks after WWII and still occurs today with influxes of refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq. And I can assure you I never had a any problem with immigration whatsoever. I believe immigration has been very good for Australia. The community I live in Japan is one where many of my Japanese friends speak really good english. Many have come to work here purely because of their english skills and because they want to work for foreign owned rather than Japanese companies. It's not like I don't speak any Japanese and can't get by in most everday situations. Hell I've bought a house and renovated it, bought several cars, bought investment property, am a part owner in a bar that employs 3 Japanese staff (do you employ anyone?) and had my first child here. I have been interviewed many times by the Japanese media (they seem amazed at all us foreigners wanting to live and invest up here). I have a very active social life with foreign and Japanese friends. I do Iaido and Kendo and have san dan in Iaido and have made great contacts in the local community through this. I'm also very active in Park Golf and entered some competitions at my local course this last summer (regularly finishing in the top 15) and have made a whole lot of other local friends through this. I have tirelessly promoted this region I live to the internaional community playing some small part in making this area one of the very few rural regions of Japan that has seen jobs and population growth and increasing house prices. I have always paid my taxes and never broken any laws excepting for one speeding fine. Please explain to me just how that makes me a bad immigrant? Or explain to me what I've been missing out on all these years? I'm almost willing to bet I've contributed and invested more into Japan than you ever have masaegu. The fact that I am not fluent in the language has not diminished my experience here all that much at all as far as I'm concerned. Would it be better to be fluent? Sure it would. But I work and play hard and now have a kid. Finding time to study is really very difficult especially as not being fluent hasn't exactly totally isolated me here. And just so you know I ran a landscaping business in Australia that specialised in indigenous and native plants. It was called Go Native Landscapes. In fact my wife and I still get contracts for landscape design work through that business. Anyway that's where the name comes from. From what I can tell you are the hater and intolerant one. And frankly your obvious racism and xenophobia is getting a little tiresome. Just so everyone knows this whole thread was started because it was this individual who accused me of being a hater.
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11-26-2010, 09:23 AM
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If, unfortunately, you can't see that or disagree, trivial matter, we can settle this via PM if you wish. The only reason why I brought this up is because I feel this is the best prevention to ungrounded arguments - which incidentally sparked off this thread and my response to it. Quote:
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 Seriously though, we're just indignant on our own grounds. For your convenience, I'm gonna compromise and not customize my fonts.  There's no such thing as happy endings, for when you find true love, happiness is everlasting.
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11-26-2010, 01:05 PM
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WOW GN-- You have been a busy and I would think an asset to Japan. I personally do not think that you should have to explain yourself to anybody. My goodness-- the number of people who move to Spain from UK-- not enough do learn the language or try to fit in with the local community. Some people are hypersensitive about their country-- I guess I will always jump to the defence of ENGLand-- but I am not blind to the faults. I do object to so much of our businesses going abroad-- and so much of our manufacturing lost. Good luck to you. yOU DESERVE TO DO WELL.
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11-27-2010, 01:06 AM
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11-27-2010, 02:33 AM
No just pointing out that I'm not a racist xenophobe like masaegu and I don't think like he does. I don't believe fluency in the language in the only indicator of being able to contribute to the society you live in in a meaningful way. That you can still live a great life and be very involved with the community without complete fluency. Xenophobic attitudes like his just show a naivete about what good can come from immigration and diversity, something I believe this country could greatly benefit from. I'd welcome anyone to come to Niseko to see just how well multiculturalism can work in this country.
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01-11-2011, 05:19 AM
about the quick "haters" labeling:
It can't be helped, the fact is there are a tonne of haters in Japan, foreigners that take the first chance they get to point out how their home country is better. A lot of Japanese people, especially those who understand English, are exposed to them more often than those foreigners who see Japan for what it is and are understanding of why it's that way, without being racist about it. Yes, those who throw the haters name around are just as racist, in that they assume that because you're a white person who lives in Japan and that you are saying something negative about the place that you must fit into that large category I mentioned above. This kind of quick judgment is to be expected, we mostly all do it all the time. And yeah it sucks for the white guy in Japan that doesn't hate and has to tip-toe around his points when mentioning anything realistic that seems negative. But that's life, those who actually are haters ruin it for others. Also, this is the internet, no one knows you or I personally, so they don't know that we actually don't hate Japan, or what we think about the facts we're posting. For example, if I post: "I don't like that Japan has a dolphin hunt". Most will presume I'm a hater. But that's an inference based on hearing so many actual haters saying it. When really I just may want to say that I don't think it's cool Japan is doing that but I don't really feel it's much better than the way north americans treat cows or other animals etc etc... Should people like masaegu give everyone the benefit of the doubt whenever they say anything that could be misconstrued as a hateful statement? Maybe yeah, it's a good way to avoid enemies and this kind of thread. But I don't give everyone the benefit of the doubt haha, so I can't really expect others to do the same for me.
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01-11-2011, 05:29 AM
From another thread ( http://www.japanforum.com/forum/japa...ers-japan.html )
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A foreigner may not understand why he sees what he sees, but he still sees it just the same as anyone else might. Though expressing those views may be spreading ignorance if it's proper reasons are not expressed it doesn't make them any less real. It's also been my experience that many Japanese people are in fact just as unaware of what's going on in Japan, and why, as those foreigners that have lived there for a fraction of the time. And yes, there are shit parts of Japanese culture, those who love Japan may have to accept that, and may have to try even harder to accept that they will hear about them from a non-Japanese person. Then again, if someone calls my family stupid, I'll defend it blindly. So who am I to tell people not to get defensive stupidly.
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