Sickening Japanese porn - Pretty much SFW

[cranks]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I live in Japan and I'm concerned about issues here. If you continually want talk about Australia then I suggest you frequent Australian forums instead of one that focuses on Japan. Before you start carrying on about my refernce to Japan being behind other nations lets just be clear that as my post above suggests I do not believe the official rates of rape reported in Japan are even remotely close to revealing the actual situation. The rate of reporting here is officially recognised as being extremely low. It is the system and culture that makes reporting so low that concerns me. It doesn't surprise me at all that a country like Australia has far higher reporting of rape because much has been done there to support and encourage victims to come forward. Are there still issues there? Yes of course there are but they are not really issues to be discussed on this forum are they?
Rape occurs in every nation on earth. The main differences between nations is how much support the victims receive and how they are treated by the police and the courts. On this front I believe Japan is lagging behind most other modern nations.

As I said, it is not ME keep bringing up how one county is behind another. It is you GoNative, who has been continuously saying Japan is behind, dude. It's OK for me to say Curry Murders are backward and barbarous. But I don't say Australia is behind. I'm not the one who's comparing Japan to another. It's fine though, if you want to do it but hey, it's the UN's number says the westerners are the vicious ones.

There are different circumstances in different countries. There may be needs for more strict controls of child pornography even if that collides with freedom. Which is understandable. But saying "Japan is behind so they should adapt it" is hardly convincing and to be honest makes you look rather bigoted in the light of the fact the "other countries" actually have higher rates of rapes. Those sick rapists and pedophiles aren't Japanese in the first place, and we value Freedom of Speech. If you want to convince Japanese, drop all that "behind" crap and ask for "help".

Edit:
And I know you will hate this but you are getting the information from only one side...
I know you live in Japan and I know you have established your life there, which I really respect, but political things are different... You get information from the TV and magazines even in your own culture when it comes to that. The things I hear in English and things I hear in Japanese are VERY different. It's like hearing a couple arguing. The girl says one thing and the guy says another. I totally understand where your opinion is coming from. But at the same time, I can't agree with you because, to my view, you are very one sided.

[GoNative]

I see your only defense is to attack me and not address any of the issues I've raised. If you do not believe that the laws here and the way rape victims are treated are behind other countries then show me what evidence you have for that. I've shown plenty to support my views. And they are views that have plenty of support from groups here in Japan. It's not just a naive westerners point of view.

[cranks]

Eh, really? Attack? I think you are a rather cool guy and I just tried to get you to understand my, A VERY WESTERNIZED JAPANESE GUY'S, point of view. The chances of you coming across a guy like me in Hokkaido is very slim, dude.

Again. You are the one who have been saying Japan is behind. IF it is just about Japan and has nothing to do with other countries, you need to take it back. Now.

IF it is about what countries are more "behind", I have good arguments for you.

Is it the former or the later?

Edit:
And I don't think you are naive. Not at all. If I gave you that impression, I apologize. I respect you and to some degree admire you. I'm serious. I just don't think you read Japanese papers very often, and it has nothing to do with one's intelligence and/or personality when it comes to a foreign language.

I don't know how to say this without being offensive... My English skills are good (hehe) but still childish, so bear with me. I would love to see the "supports". I like fact based arguments. For example, what's the support for your notion that Japan is a "pedophile photographers' heaven"?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by cranks

But when I see some western country arrests their citizen for possessing MANGA where there is no VICTIM, and convicts them and classifies them as a felon and a sex offender, I get a feeling similar to the one I get when I come across news about sex and women in some Muslim countries.

The issue is kinda religious I think, and my religion (Zen) tells me it's all about the balance.

I hope you aren't talking about the Chrisopher Handley case, because I don't think he has been classified as a sex offender.

[GoNative]

Cranks you might find this an interesting read. A collaborative paper between two Japanese and one western author. Let me know what you think of it.

Decisions not to report sexual assault in Japan

[cranks]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Cranks you might find this an interesting read. A collaborative paper between two Japanese and one western author. Let me know what you think of it.

Decisions not to report sexual assault in Japan

I think,
1.
"Wow, Japan is a very backward, barbaric country where women are oppressed, rapes are prevalent and the culprits are often not punished, if I take this paper at the face value".

2.
"I don't want to take these guys' classes. The quality of the paper is subpar to say the least".

There are many points I find inaccurate, irrational and sentimental. It'd take forever to cover them all, I'd end up writing a paper myself, so I'll just touch on some.

"In 1985, one of the directors general of the cultural affairs bureau of the Ministry of Education, Miura Shumon, wrote in more than one magazine, that ‘rape, although not gentlemanly conduct, was not so bad if practiced on modern young women whose moral standards has slipped anyhow’ (Wolferen 1993, p. 228)"

Isn't one of the first rules of writing a paper "avoid using second hand sources"? At least that's how I was taught in collage. And this one isn't even a second hand source. It's at least a 4th hand source, which isn't even a source anymore. It's a rumor. First of all, yes, Miura did write on "more than one magazine" which are two. I don't usually use "more than one" to specify 2 things. I wonder what the intention was. Secondly, the citation is wrong. He wrote something along the line with "It is impossible to exterminate rapes, so if the rapists have to do it, it is preferable they do it to morally corrupted women" 「強姦はなくならないのだから、強姦犯は、貞操観念の 少ない女性を強姦してくれればよい」. He never said "it is not so bad" in any instance. Miura is a Catholic writer and he later said he was even against prostitution. Yes, this is still an improper statement, and he resigned. But I don't think using a twisted citation of someone's gaffe for which he lost his job as a proof of Japanese society's toleration toward rape is by any means reasonable, not to mention on an academic paper.

Here is an excerpt of the minutes in which Miura is being grilled regarding the issue.
gokan

This is exactly what I have said. The things I read in English and things I read in Japanese are often very different. Young males casually "reipu" girls in Japan? Never heard of it. Have you?

It goes on and on and on about 武士道、村八分、恥、but never comes up with a hard number. According to a survey by a Japanese government agency, 14.8% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the authority.
$BJ?@.#1#8G/HG(B $BHH:aGr=q(B $BBh(B6$BJT(B/$BBh(B4$B>O(B/$BBh(B1$B@a(B/1

It seems one in the states shows 16%
Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is just one survey and it must be very difficult to get an accurate number. There are also differences on the definition of a rape, so the numbers can vary dramatically. But even with that in mind, I think it is highly plausible that rape cases are much less common in Japan compared to many other countries. Of course, there is much to be desired about how police, in any country, handle rape cases, but that's a different discussion.

[cranks]

Originally Posted by MMM

I hope you aren't talking about the Chrisopher Handley case, because I don't think he has been classified as a sex offender.

No, it's the Canadian case. I think arresting someone for possessing a Manga is absurd enough though.

[Umihito]

I am curious, I read somewhere in this thread that buying the 'child' part of this post was seen as just as bad as anywhere else in the world.

So is there any stigma attached to buying it? If a person took it to the till, would they get dirty looks from other customers / the cashier? Or would they all act as normal?
I know it's not like the Japanese to kick up a fuss about much things... but this of course isn't your normal daily thing.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Umihito

I am curious, I read somewhere in this thread that buying the 'child' part of this post was seen as just as bad as anywhere else in the world.

So is there any stigma attached to buying it? If a person took it to the till, would they get dirty looks from other customers / the cashier? Or would they all act as normal?
I know it's not like the Japanese to kick up a fuss about much things... but this of course isn't your normal daily thing.

You are reviving a thread over 6 months old. What is the specific question you are asking, as I am sure no one remembers the details of the thread. What is "it" you are talking about?

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are reviving a thread over 6 months old. What is the specific question you are asking, as I am sure no one remembers the details of the thread. What is "it" you are talking about?

Ah, sorry :L

By 'it' I am refering to the DVDs of very underage children (real children) in provocative poses, swimwear etc