alternative medicines

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by MMM

I could be wrong, but I think the US is one of the only countries in the world where prescription medicine companies have multi-million dollar advertising campaigns.

It is interesting how Westerners (or is it just North Americans?) have severe skepticism for natural herbal remedies that have been used for over 1000 years, but quickly feel faith in the "newest and latest" remedies they are told to talk to their doctor about.

I wonder if we would feel differently if traditional herbal medicine had an advertising budget.

I remember watching an American TV show on video in Japan, and an ad for some sleeping medicine came up. The Japanese person I was watching with reacted, "Only in America would you sell a medicine for symptoms of being human."

Personally I would be far more worried if people started losing their skepticism. Currently you can find 1000's of supposed alternative remedies out there claiming all sorts of miraculous cures for just about everything.
So much of it smacks of snake oil salesmanship.
There are some clinical trials that do show that some herbal treatments can be very effective in treating certain ailments but the issue of their effectiveness comes down to dosage and it appears dosage can vary so greatly between different practioners that the efficacy can vary greatly. Also they are often sold with claims of being effective for a far wider range of ailments than they actually are.
So there's definitely some proven beneficial herbal remedies out there but again I just believe there needs to be greater controls over quality so people can feel confident they are getting something that will actually work. Here in Japan I'd say those controls are pretty good. Elsewhere where such remedies are considered 'alternative' I'm not so sure.

[Atredies]

i went to a modern hospital professionally for tibetan traditional medicine in beijing. the nurses were very friendly. i loved it.

[Ghap]

Well I dont believe in rhino horn for virilty nor oysters as an aphrodisiac but I think there is wisdom within much of the old herbal medcine.

Take penecillin as we all know it was discovered by accident but if i remember correct prior to that people used to chew tree bark which naturally containes low doses of penecillin.

Infact as an Englishman theres a good reason why Im called a Limey.

Thats not to say i Agree with all of it as i dont...some guy wants to charge $100 to wave a crystal over me (no thanks), bit of bat guano for a headache (no thanks) but as with all things since it became somwhat more popular over the years theres plenty of people willing to take advantage.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Personally I would be far more worried if people started losing their skepticism. Currently you can find 1000's of supposed alternative remedies out there claiming all sorts of miraculous cures for just about everything.
So much of it smacks of snake oil salesmanship.
There are some clinical trials that do show that some herbal treatments can be very effective in treating certain ailments but the issue of their effectiveness comes down to dosage and it appears dosage can vary so greatly between different practioners that the efficacy can vary greatly. Also they are often sold with claims of being effective for a far wider range of ailments than they actually are.
So there's definitely some proven beneficial herbal remedies out there but again I just believe there needs to be greater controls over quality so people can feel confident they are getting something that will actually work. Here in Japan I'd say those controls are pretty good. Elsewhere where such remedies are considered 'alternative' I'm not so sure.

What people are you talking about? I can't speak for all of Asia, but the Japanese I know feel fine with the medicines they are using, and are happy to point out that they don't get nausea, diarrhea, light-headedness, drowsiness, loss of sleep, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, constipation, suicidal thoughts, and a host of other side-effects that are often worse than the original ailment from the medicine they take.

I know a guy in America that had essentially acid-reflex. He is now on four medications, each one cancels out the side-effects of the previous one. At least two are mood altering.

How many kids in Japan are taking drugs for ADHD?

[GoNative]

ADHD? That really does appear to be mostly an American affliction...

MMM I totally agree with you that there are some good herbal remedies and I stated that here in Japan there is actually some reasonable regulation of the industry. The problem is there are so many alternative medicines out there how does anyone really know which ones are effective or not? Are you going to sleep next some crystals because of their claimed miraculous healing powers? Maybe sit inside and pyramid? Or maybe some magnets under your mattress. I mean there's bound to be a few infomercials out there with people claiming how their lives have been totally changed by such things.

The main problem I have with many alternative treatments is that they have not gone through any of the normal rigorous clinical trials to prove their efficacy or possible side effects. Sure most are pretty benign (because they actually do nothing at all) but the prices some people pay for these things are not so benign. And some like accupunture have been shown to have virtually no other effect other than what you would expect from a placebo in a clinical trial for most of the ailments it can supposedly assist with.

I know there's been some pretty dodgy western medicines released and undoubtedly some unscrupulous practices at times (with a lot of money involved it's not surprising) but at least there regulation and oversight of the industry. There is little of either for many of the alternatives treatments out there.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by Ghap

Take penecillin as we all know it was discovered by accident but if i remember correct prior to that people used to chew tree bark which naturally containes low doses of penecillin.

An excellent point. Many of our modern medicines originally come from folk-practices and herbal medicine. You're still supposed to give people charcoal if they've ingested certain poisons, and how many people spent their childhoods scrubbing dockleaves on their nettle stings? If you look back on old 'how-to' home medicine manuals, between the nutty ideas there's some really sensible ones. I've seen one that recommends elderberry's for pretty much ALL common ailments; which sounds like a farce, but elderberries contain whopping amounts of vitamin C, and if you think in the past how few people ate proper vegetables (without boiling them to nothing), and the scarcity of oranges, then there's a nugget of good use there.

It's aspirin in white willow bark though; penicillin comes from certain green molds, hence why you might come across ideas like the 'moldy-bread poultice'.

[Kelvindegrez]

Originally Posted by GoNative

The main problem I have with many alternative treatments is that they have not gone through any of the normal rigorous clinical trials to prove their efficacy or possible side effects. Sure most are pretty benign (because they actually do nothing at all) but the prices some people pay for these things are not so benign. And some like accupunture have been shown to have virtually no other effect other than what you would expect from a placebo in a clinical trial for most of the ailments it can supposedly assist with.

I know there's been some pretty dodgy western medicines released and undoubtedly some unscrupulous practices at times (with a lot of money involved it's not surprising) but at least there regulation and oversight of the industry. There is little of either for many of the alternatives treatments out there.

I agree with this.

When it comes to any medicine or cure I think all that really matters is if it does what it claims to do. But yeah clinical trials to prove their efficacy or possible side effects matter because a lot of older medicine is tied up with folklore or older belief systems.

Using acupuncture as an example:
Whether the whole charka thing is real not is metaphysical and is a whole different discussion.
Whether they found through that belief something that works for the physical reality or not can be tested through scientific methods like a clinical trial.
(regardless if the beliefs which the practice formed by is true or not)

[MMM]

Originally Posted by GoNative

ADHD? That really does appear to be mostly an American affliction...

And a fairly new one, at that.

Originally Posted by GoNative

I know there's been some pretty dodgy western medicines released and undoubtedly some unscrupulous practices at times (with a lot of money involved it's not surprising) but at least there regulation and oversight of the industry. There is little of either for many of the alternatives treatments out there.

And I agree with you here, 100%. I am happy this is a regulated industry. It's interesting how some people want less government, but no one is suggesting the FDA be defunded.

What I find interesting is how Americans will put up with side-effects of medication which is sometimes worse than the ailment they are treating. I don't see that in Japan.

[protheus]

Well it isn't a bad thing for a Pharmaceutical Company to sell you more medicine.
As an example: there are medicine that stop stomachache provoked by the side effects of the medicine you take for the dizziness side effect of the medicine you take for the cold you have.

So, for the example, they earn 3 times more money from you and you're insurance (if you got one) because the first medicine has side effects. Pretty cool isn't it? Why put all in the same one, when you can sell 3 times more?

[TalnSG]

My feelings on this vary with the particular drug, herb, technique, practitioner and patient. They all have merits and serious negative aspects that a person needs to be well informed of before using.

I had a wonderful and very effective accupuncturist for may years. After he moved, I found a few that were not so good. Can we say "shlock"? Now I have another that is well educated and we shall see how well his technique is with time.

Herbal medicine has many benefits, especially when administered by herbalist with years of apprenticship and centuries of study to refer to. But in the U.S. the primary purveyors are a step below even the pharmaceutical companies with their multi-level marketing and money-crazed salespeople that only know the buzz words about what they are selling. I seriously prefer my herbal management of hot flashes, but I would have to be a moron to believe the added BS many of the herb distributors put out about the herbs I take. Additionally, many of them are not well managed for quality and consistency of their product.

On the other hand I am not going to play "let's see how this does" with my cardiac drugs. A mistake could be fatal, so I will stick to my well tested drugs.

As for ADHD, it is nothing new (except a more precise identification), it is not limited tot he U.S., it IS a real medical problem, it IS helped by correctly administered drugs. It is also a seriously abussed diagnosis by lazy and/or greedy practitioners and the drugs for it are far to over dosed to far too many people without adequate follow up. I know this well because I have two close relatives, both of whom were diagnosed with ADHD - but only one of whom actually is. The other was a victim of a parent more concerned with having an easily controlled child, than a healthy, active one.