Suicide rate in Japan -- Purpose in life

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by RealJames

If I had a dime for every time my train was late because there was an "accident" on the tracks...

I was thinking the same thing.

I'd heard the use of the term "accident" before. It was only until later that I realized what it likely meant.

[GoNative]

I agree with MMM that suicide is viewed quite differently here. For one there's none of the religious conotations of not being able to get into heaven that we have in Christian nations. Even in not so religious western nations there is generally a long history of religious influence which has coloured thinking on suicide as a sin.
In Japan there is a long history of suicide being an honorable thing to do if you have shamed/dishonored yourself, family or community. I guess it doesn't quite have the same stigma associated with it as in the west. Still don't think any of that makes it any easier for surviving family members. It's always devastating for them.

[Kelvindegrez]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I agree with MMM that suicide is viewed quite differently here. For one there's none of the religious conotations of not being able to get into heaven that we have in Christian nations. Even in not so religious western nations there is generally a long history of religious influence which has coloured thinking on suicide as a sin.
In Japan there is a long history of suicide being an honorable thing to do if you have shamed/dishonored yourself, family or community. I guess it doesn't quite have the same stigma associated with it as in the west. Still don't think any of that makes it any easier for surviving family members. It's always devastating for them.

Yeah that's what really grips my heart. Knowing the source of something doesn't really make it all that easier to deal with. So I guess in Japan relationships matter a big deal, but suicide doesn't have the stigmas associated with it as it does in the west.

I guess in terms of keeping relationships the negative connations of suicide is a benifit to people in the west. It keeps them alive somehow more so in relation to suicide.

I've come to see it rather simply. Almost childlike. I always see hope. Where their is life there is hope. Where there is life, there is hope for relationship.

[Cedar]

There is a Japanese movie called "Suicide Club". very disturbing.

One thing I noticed when I was in Japan was that they report local suicides on the local news (the one I saw was about a random old man who got laid off so he hung himself in his apartment).

Most media outlets in the US don't report suicides (unless if it's a famous person) because they don't want to to enlighten anyone who might be thinking about doing it.

Suicide in Japan is not religious. Sure, they do have a history of harakiri/seppuku, kamikaze being honorable, but I don't think modern day suicide is done for honor or a bigger purpose.

Many are due to layoffs, bullying, business failures, loss in meaning of life, etc. It's also not considered a 'criminal' act.

[RealJames]

oookaaaay
I just finished a very long debate/argument with my gf about suicide in Japan, here's what it boils down to according to her (as always, she may well be wrong)

In western and middle eastern cultures there is a stigma associated with suicide (and also sex for that matter) due to religion and how religion shaped modern day culture, regardless of if someone believes in it or not now, they still live in a culture shaped by it.

In Japan where, yes there is religion, but it's hardly taken seriously by anyone, these stigmas are if not non-existent then very mild.
Her mother said "if my husband tried to leave me for another girl I'd kill myself in front of him (as a punishment)".

In Japanese culture, life is not so reverent, holy, sacred, important etc as westerners perceive it to be in their own.

These things I said are generalizations to capture the general feel of the culture, of course many exceptions exist and many people disagree with it.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RealJames

oookaaaay
I just finished a very long debate/argument with my gf about suicide in Japan, here's what it boils down to according to her (as always, she may well be wrong)

In western and middle eastern cultures there is a stigma associated with suicide (and also sex for that matter) due to religion and how religion shaped modern day culture, regardless of if someone believes in it or not now, they still live in a culture shaped by it.

In Japan where, yes there is religion, but it's hardly taken seriously by anyone, these stigmas are if not non-existent then very mild.
Her mother said "if my husband tried to leave me for another girl I'd kill myself in front of him (as a punishment)".

In Japanese culture, life is not so reverent, holy, sacred, important etc as westerners perceive it to be in their own.

These things I said are generalizations to capture the general feel of the culture, of course many exceptions exist and many people disagree with it.

I don't know if "hardly taken seriously" is the right word. Tradition is highly revered in Japan, and many of those traditions have religious origins, but it is true that most people don't associate themselves with any one religion, and if you ask probably most Japanese what religion they are they will say "I don't know" or "nothing". That is very different than the West. Even agnostics don't say "nothing".

But other than that minor point, I have come to the same conclusions as you.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't know if "hardly taken seriously" is the right word. Tradition is highly revered in Japan, and many of those traditions have religious origins, but it is true that most people don't associate themselves with any one religion, and if you ask probably most Japanese what religion they are they will say "I don't know" or "nothing". That is very different than the West. Even agnostics don't say "nothing".

But other than that minor point, I have come to the same conclusions as you.

Thanks,

yeah a lot of tradition is founded in religion but most people pay no heed to that, for example going to the shrine at new years, most people aren't even aware that it is remotely religious...

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Thanks,

yeah a lot of tradition is founded in religion but most people pay no heed to that, for example going to the shrine at new years, most people aren't even aware that it is remotely religious...

Again, I don't think it is correct to say they don't understand that it is a religious ritual. It is just as individuals, Japanese people are not concerned with religion in their hearts. They go to the shrine not because they are Buddhist, but because they are Japanese.

This is a part of Japanese cultural tradition, that is based in a religious ritual.

That is a little like saying Americans don't know that Christmas is supposed to be Jesus's birthday.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by MMM

Again, I don't think it is correct to say they don't understand that it is a religious ritual. It is just as individuals, Japanese people are not concerned with religion in their hearts. They go to the shrine not because they are Buddhist, but because they are Japanese.

This is a part of Japanese cultural tradition, that is based in a religious ritual.

That is a little like saying Americans don't know that Christmas is supposed to be Jesus's birthday.

would you say that most Americans treat xmas as a serious religious ritual or as a cultural tradition?
We agree on the whole suicide bit, and I think we agree about this too if anything just the words I'm using aren't explicit enough
My original thing was that religion is hardly taken seriously in Japan.
It definitely is a major part of modern Japanese culture, but people don't even think of it most of the time, even while doing those cultural "religious" things. Right?

[Kelvindegrez]

Originally Posted by RealJames

would you say that most Americans treat xmas as a serious religious ritual or as a cultural tradition?
We agree on the whole suicide bit, and I think we agree about this too if anything just the words I'm using aren't explicit enough
My original thing was that religion is hardly taken seriously in Japan.
It definitely is a major part of modern Japanese culture, but people don't even think of it most of the time, even while doing those cultural "religious" things. Right?

Yeah I think that religious ideas from the past really do shape things. In terms of Science born out of the backdrop of a Christian worldview in the west. Its obvious that religion has made a serious impact on the culutre of Japan.

It reminds me of yoga here in the U.S.A, before it used to be of religious signifigance but now it is just another afternoon workout class to most Americans.

However although people have lost the religious signifigance of certain acts, the religious ideas are still at play, and have a real impact on our thinking and thought processes whether we know it or not.

Shintoism and Buddism, have alot (though not the whole reason) to do with the thought processes that eventually lead to a great nation to have the 5th largestest suicide rate.

Maybe a change in thought is needed?