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Womens rights in Japan or elsewhere -
12-21-2010, 02:18 PM
Women in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This site gives a little information-- but needs citations and confirmation. Do japanese women have equal rights with men? Are their wages equal to those of men for similar jobs? do they have the same opportunities in the work market? My friend has a female friend who fought for women workers rights in Japan. Are women ever treated equally-- ANYWHERE? The Changing Roles of Women in Japanese Society 
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12-21-2010, 02:41 PM
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2) no 3) no 4) no, well, not that I know of Think 1800's America, and that's present day Japan, with respect to gender discrimination...
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12-22-2010, 12:27 AM
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In marriages, however, they tend to receive the lesser role when it comes to property and the like. (But this is more related to "head of household" on paperwork than gender. A woman can take the head of household role on registration, but it defaults to the husband.) Quote:
Note that I emphasize same in there. I`ll clarify a bit more on this below. Quote:
For a lot of westerners, it is very hard to comprehend the way this works in Japan. I have probably written more posts on this than any other subject during my time on JF. I will quote myself from some random posts I made at some point in time that kind of sum things up; "Japan obviously isn`t perfect, but a determined woman really wouldn`t have too much trouble reaching a high position. The thing is, a lot (dare I say most?) women here don`t want that responsibility. They want to be able to quit on a whim when they get married or have children. A funny note - In Japan, the fact that fewer women are currently working is considered a sign that the economy is recovering. Why? Because more families can afford to have the mother stay at home. In most cases, working mothers are working out of necessity - not choice. When given a choice (in the case that the husband is making enough to support the household alone) most women will choose to stay at home." "Look at the popular western female`s opinion of the women in Japan... That they`re all oppressed and held down by the men - without ever bothering to actually look at the fact that the "oppression" is an active choice made by women. Staying at home is the best-case-scenario in most cases. It`s the dream women strive for. Not the "My husband won`t let me work" everyone loves to jump to conclusions about." "A lot of the "women treated unfairly" stuff is really a myth based on misinterpretation. I`ve covered it a lot in other topics, but basically from a "western" viewpoint, it seems that no one can believe a woman would ever possibly CHOOSE to leave her job and stay at home once she is married/has children. In their eyes, it looks to be "oppression"... Even though the women choose to do so of their own free will. So this big "women are inferior in Japan!" talk spreads. Most women choose to stay home with the kids. Some don`t. Most women are content to take a lower salary because of the lack of strings attached to it - if the company is paying you a lot there is a lot more pressure to continue working... They`ve invested a lot in you. But if it`s lower to begin with (I`m talking like 85% of the average male salary, not like incredibly low), there is very little pressure to keep working once you decide to quit for family reasons. Employers expect it, so everyone parts on good terms. There are companies out there that pay women full salaries - sometimes in the same company there will be two standards - and those are the type of women who generally continue to work. The only reason the lower salary is more common is because the women themselves PREFER it as it takes the pressure off of them in the future." "I`ve never met a man who has actually thought women were inferior. Even the older generations - they are wane to put responsibility on young women who join companies - mainly for the reasons I have quoted myself about. This doesn`t mean they think they are inferior. It means that they know from experience what generally happens. Superior/inferior has virtually nothing to do with it. My husband is Japanese, quite traditional, from a traditional family, raised in a small village pretty much isolated from city influence. He doesn`t think I`m inferior, and is in fact quite jealous of the choices available to me. He is expected to work, but I can choose to either stay home, work, continue my education, etc. Even in the village where he was raised, it`s generally the women who are actually in charge." Currently, there is a sort of "affirmative action" law in place for employers (I forget the name of it...) in which they are almost required to hire an equal number of women and men when at all possible and offer them identical positions and salaries. Companies have an incredibly difficult time finding women who are willing to take those positions. Women will often state from day one that they do not want that level of responsibility, and that they want a position offering the freedom to leave at any time. For women who want to dedicate their lives to a career - companies are MORE than willing to hire them as women in positions of power in a company means tax breaks. More quotes; "It`s not "some" women choosing to quit and raise their family. It`s the overwhelming majority. Take, for example, my husband`s company. In the year he was hired, and the two following years, they hired a total of 42 women. (About the same number of men.) The company has a female manager, and there is no "glass ceiling" preventing them from rising up in the ranks. Now, five years later, only EIGHT of those women still work there. ALL the others quit of their own volition within those 5 years. The reasons? "Marriage" and "To raise a child" are the overwhelming choices. There were a couple of women who had medical reasons, and a few who just randomly quit, etc. None were fired. Of the eight remaining, one of them is on my husband`s team, and is getting married next month. The company is trying very very hard to convince her to stay, offering her big bonuses, and literally begging.... She`s an excellent programmer. But she has said that she will most likely be leaving within a couple months of the wedding. This is pretty much the case all over Japan. Women quit - whether the company wants them to or not - when they get married or have children. Because the women *plan* to do this, they don`t WANT a lot of responsibility on their heads to have to feel bad about when they leave. (Which is very responsible of them.) I don`t believe that "women`s rights" has to fit the mold of, say, the US in order to exist. (By the way, out of the 46 men hired during the same 3 year period - only 6 of them have quit.) It does indeed take longer for a company to trust a woman with high-responsiblity work... Because most of the time they only hang around for as long as a "termporary" worker. Temporary workers, regardless of their gender, also aren`t trusted with important long-term work. The company would be stupid to do so. Imagine giving an important project to someone who just decides to leave in the middle of it! But after the woman has married and expressed that she will not be leaving, or the temporary worker becomes a full fledged employee... They are treated the same as any other employee. "smart enough" or "skilled enough" isn`t an issue. It`s the normal rate at which women leave their jobs, regardless of their skill." Tons of quoting, but I hate to waste time repeating myself. 
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12-22-2010, 01:12 AM
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12-22-2010, 02:39 AM
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12-22-2010, 02:50 AM
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But that's good.
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12-22-2010, 04:55 AM
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Masaegu I'd hoped you could spot a hyperbole when you see one  Quote:
I particularly agree with the self inflicted position women here take upon themselves. There's something else that need to be mentioned about it all though: Sexual harassment, especially in the workplace,think 1930's America with respect to that. From a western point of view, Japan is so far behind the times in terms of gender equality, and like Nyororin pointed out, it's not just with the men, but the women also. I want to add also; "The Pill" is not common here, which like it or not was a major factor in woman's rights progress etc. Women can get the pill, but it's generally thought of as being unsafe and expensive and radical.
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12-22-2010, 05:41 AM
despite what I've said, Japan has made remarkable progress recently with regards to gender equality, women here generally don't feel oppressed or that they are being treated unfairly, at least until they talk to a western woman.
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then again, Japanese people are very proud of their ultra-thin condoms so contraception isn't exactly frowned upon
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12-22-2010, 08:00 AM
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