Feelings Toward Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Suki]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am not going to defend America's actions in Iraq, but that isn't what this thread is about. It is about WWII.

And no, it isn't that simple. You make it sound like America is of one mind, and they just walk into any situation like Rambo and blow everything up and ask questions later. That is simplistic and simply wrong.

If our ally is being attacked then it is not only our duty but a requirement to help them. If that help is in the form of military defense and is what is needed, then that is what happens. You pepper your language with words like "brutally" and it just clouds the point.

Allies help allies. That is all the justification that is needed.

So you are basically saying that the end justifies the means. The end being helping allies, the means being providing such help through military actions, no matter what. See? That's where we differ on our viewpoint. Such harsh statement on your part just sealed this discussion.

[Ronin4hire]

I believe all MMM is trying to say is that to pretend conflicts occur in a vaccuum is erroneous.

International politics is a complicated matter. While I'm no fan of the USA myself.. you're going about your criticism all wrong Suki.

The USA isn't at fault for interfering in the matters of others.

Did you know for example that elements of Pakistani's intelligence agency is aiding the Taleban. That the Taleban have been found using Chinese weapons and even Swiss ammunition (though I believe there was a vote in Switzerland regarding the ethics of their weapons proliferation that might have addressed that recently).

It's all a complicated web of relationships held together by power and profit.

What the US is guilty of is pretending that they operate from a moral high ground where things like "freedom" and "liberty" are paramount.

But the reality is that they are simply like every other nation that exists and has ever existed.

[nobora]

My opinion is that I didnt like the fact that America bombed Japan and I dont like the fact that Japan wasnt giving up till they goot bombed. So in all I say its a thing of the past that should be taught o future generations so that it may not happen agian.

[fluffy0000]

Japan unlike the other Axis powers - Germany and Italy was offered a modified " Unconditional Surrender " ..,that only applied to it's military not the entire country.
(ie; emperor, civilian government * excluding Imperial Advisory Council etc. excluded from " Unconditional Surrender" terms.)

The US, thru 'Ultra' and 'Magic' were already intercepting and decoding intelligence of both Japanese military and diplomatic codes .The US Identified the problem that the current Japanese government 'Imperial Advisory Council ' would have in accepting a " Unconditional Surrender " that also included the entire country.
The US made attempts to communicate the difference btwn the - modified " Unconditional Surrender " through diplomatic channels and even broadcasting the modified terms to Japan.

Japans government 'Imperial Advisory Council' failed to accept this offer and instead misinterpeted the US offer as a sign of weakness and especially the hardliners and the Army further entrenched themselves.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Suki

So you are basically saying that the end justifies the means. The end being helping allies, the means being providing such help through military actions, no matter what. See? That's where we differ on our viewpoint. Such harsh statement on your part just sealed this discussion.

Your unforgiving tendency to bend someone else's words to fit your argument makes a mature discussion with you rather difficult.

I never said the ends justify the means... why would you even bring up a statement like that?

Address WHAT I SAID and not your simplified interpretations.

Or answer this question: Should the US not support and help its allies in times of conflict?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I believe all MMM is trying to say is that to pretend conflicts occur in a vaccuum is erroneous.

International politics is a complicated matter. While I'm no fan of the USA myself.. you're going about your criticism all wrong Suki.

The USA isn't at fault for interfering in the matters of others.

Did you know for example that elements of Pakistani's intelligence agency is aiding the Taleban. That the Taleban have been found using Chinese weapons and even Swiss ammunition (though I believe there was a vote in Switzerland regarding the ethics of their weapons proliferation that might have addressed that recently).

It's all a complicated web of relationships held together by power and profit.

What the US is guilty of is pretending that they operate from a moral high ground where things like "freedom" and "liberty" are paramount.

But the reality is that they are simply like every other nation that exists and has ever existed.

We don't always agree, but for the most part I can agree with this statement.

[protheus]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Did you know for example that elements of Pakistani's intelligence agency is aiding the Taleban.

And did you know that USA aided the creation of Al Qaeda and funded them for a while through C.I.A. to fight against the soviet?

There isn't a country in this world with an entire white history behind it, but this is not what we are discussing about now, on this thread, it is just about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can we return to that and see what the japanese feel about it. It doesn't really matter at this time if it was justified or not.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by protheus

There isn't a country in this world with an entire white history behind it, but this is not what we are discussing about now, on this thread, it is just about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can we return to that and see what the japanese feel about it. It doesn't really matter at this time if it was justified or not.

Yes, the OP is not about America and Iraq, and if someone feels like making a thread about it, they are free to do so.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by protheus

There isn't a country in this world with an entire white history behind it, but this is not what we are discussing about now, on this thread, it is just about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can we return to that and see what the japanese feel about it. It doesn't really matter at this time if it was justified or not.

Yes this thread is about Hiroshima and Nagasaki which has already been covered on a previous thread.


It is not about America now. I agree with the above comment re no country is innocent including UK and its British EMPIRE. After all wasn't the aim of japan to free their ASIAN neighbours from the BRITISH



I pray that no country will be stupid enough to set off another of these ghastly bombs.

Surely a modern version will have far more devastating results. THey have been used as a deterrent for many years-- GOD let them never ever be used again-- by any country.

[JamboP26]

I'm noticing some people having their comments ignored. Seems the arrogance still lives on Today. It takes me back to Battle Royale II, when all the countries bombed by America are being listed. There was a lot of countries there.

To answer the OP, I think Japan has forgiven the US for its attacks, but it is still greatfully remembered, & there is probably a few citizens that can't forgive the US for what they've done, like in other war involved countries

[termogard]

Originally Posted by JamboP26

I'm noticing some people having their comments ignored. Seems the arrogance still lives on Today. It takes me back to Battle Royale II, when all the countries bombed by America are being listed. There was a lot of countries there.

You forgot to add, that japanese leader felt merely sacral fear of America in BRII.