Do you think Japan's declining birth rate will cause it to increase immigration?

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Xenophobia is fear or dislike of foreigners or others. Japanese people certainly don't have this. Japanese people are largely ignorant about the world outside Japan but not afraid of it, nor do they dislike it.

Japan's population is almost entirely ethnically Japanese, there are a few Brazilians which were originally from Japan here but they look as Japanese as Japanese people do, and their numbers are so minute in comparison to overall population we're talking like less than 0.2%, and that was in the 80's or something. The other foreigners are largely Korean and Chinese who are by and large born and raised in Japan. Leaving the non-asian population at an incredibly small number. Ergo, homogeneous population is a fair statement.

Resident visas are granted to people who stay in Japan for extended periods of time, they need a certain level of Japanese and any Japanese national to vouch for them. Naturalized I believe is the term.

For births, nationality of parents determines nationality of child, not place of birth. If a British or American couple have a kid in Japan it has no nationality, the parents need to declare it as an American with the embassy.

The concept of immigration to help the economy has been floating around a lot here. It's not well received by everyone for good reasons, language barrier being the biggest. The Brazilians set an example of why that fails.

Yeah, it's definitely not that Japanese people are xenophobic. They just want to keep their country to themselves, and I find that a perfectly good choice considering immigrant problems with other countries.

It's good that Japan has strict requirements for long term visas with things like language, university degrees etc. What I'm also worried about is that if Japan does need more foreigners, they may relax those very requirements, and all sorts of under-qualified people will be flooding in and draining resources instead of contributing to society.
I'm with everyone that's worried about the language barrier if the laws are relaxed. If people want to move to Japan, they should at least know the language to a good extent. I'm not trying to be stereotypical here, but if the trial Brazilians with Japanese decent couldn't even learn the language (assuming they'd have access to better language learning from parents etc) then lord knows what would happen with other foreigners.

In my old Geography lessons we also had sources disputing whether immigrants actually help the economy or not, but as with everything there's good and bad points so there's no definite answer.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by Umihito

Yeah, it's definitely not that Japanese people are xenophobic. They just want to keep their country to themselves

Isn't that almost exactly what xenophobia is?

One of the big problems in Japan is that the economy has had virtually no growth in over 20 years. Most of the workforce have only had pay decreases over that time and there's been a big move from lifelong full-time employment to more casual and part-time employment. People have less money, companies have less money and there are few ways for people to invest in anything that has growth. Houses and land has pretty much only decreased in value. In many areas house prices are barely half the value they were bought for back before the bubble burst. The Japanese share market has little growth reflecting the stagnant economy. It's very difficult to really get ahead financially here and of course this has been reflected in the declining birth rate. About the only wealth in Japan today is old money and it's slowly but surely running out.

I personally don't believe that there is anything incredibly, intrinsically special about Japanese culture that needs protection from an influx of foreigners but I also don't believe there's anything to gain for Japan by just allowing anyone in. But this country could benefit greatly from an influx of foreign investors. Unlike here many other parts of Asia are continuing to boom and there's a lot of money out there. I think Japan could benefit greatly from having an annual immigration intake of say at least 100,000 foreigners who meet certain financial criteria. Foreigners who will get here and start businesses and invest. It would help create jobs and stimulate the economy. It would also bring new ideas, something this country appears to be greatly lacking these days.

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Isn't that almost exactly what xenophobia is?

One of the big problems in Japan is that the economy has had virtually no growth in over 20 years. Most of the workforce have only had pay decreases over that time and there's been a big move from lifelong full-time employment to more casual and part-time employment. People have less money, companies have less money and there is few ways for people to invest in anything that has growth. Houses and land has pretty much only decreased in value. In many areas house prices are barely half the value they were bought for back before the bubble burst. The Japanese share market has little growth reflecting the stagnant economy. It's very difficult to really get ahead financially here and of course this has been reflected in the declining birth rate. About the only wealth in Japan today is old money and it's slowly but surely running out.

I personally don't believe that there is anything incredibly, intrinsically special about Japanese culture that needs protection from an influx of foreigners but I also don't believe there's anything to gain for Japan by just allowing anyone in. But this country could benefit greatly from an influx of foreign investors. Unlike here many other parts of Asia are continuing to boom and there's a lot of money out there. I think Japan could benefit greatly from having an annual immigration intake of say at least 100,000 well foreigners who meet certain financial criteria. Foreigners who will get here and start businesses and invest. It would help create jobs and stimulate the economy. It would also bring new ideas, something this country appears to be greatly lacking these days.

Yeah I think you're right there, sorry about that, I think I got it a little confused with racism. I always thought that xenophobia = racism. Woops

I find that countries that embrace mass immigration are generally culture-loss countries. Places like Britain have a few pretty castles, but since mass immigration from much of the world I can't really say Britain has a beaming culture. Language loss is a big problem all over the world too.

It's an interesting idea about bringing in big business people. I can imagine that's it'd most likely be mainly from China. It's also funny because it's usually rich countries that tend to send much of their businesses to poorer countries for the cheap labour etc. This would be the first example I've seen where a relatively poorer country would need to send it's businesses to a richer country! XD

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Umihito

Yeah, it's definitely not that Japanese people are xenophobic. They just want to keep their country to themselves, and I find that a perfectly good choice considering immigrant problems with other countries.

It's good that Japan has strict requirements for long term visas with things like language, university degrees etc. What I'm also worried about is that if Japan does need more foreigners, they may relax those very requirements, and all sorts of under-qualified people will be flooding in and draining resources instead of contributing to society.
I'm with everyone that's worried about the language barrier if the laws are relaxed. If people want to move to Japan, they should at least know the language to a good extent. I'm not trying to be stereotypical here, but if the trial Brazilians with Japanese decent couldn't even learn the language (assuming they'd have access to better language learning from parents etc) then lord knows what would happen with other foreigners.

In my old Geography lessons we also had sources disputing whether immigrants actually help the economy or not, but as with everything there's good and bad points so there's no definite answer.

The Brazilians is a difficult topic because they came 230,000 strong all at once, which is insane. And they just got lumped into different hubs where they all stuck together and didn't really get a chance to join Japanese society.

If all the immigrants that come have great educations and good spoken Japanese then that will just make it harder for Japanese people to get the high paying jobs. Countries generally want immigrants that don't contribute to crime, but also take the blue collar jobs that others don't want.

When you see the demands of most countries, including Japan, of their immigrants it's quite silly and preposterous.
Please take the shit jobs, immerse yourself completely into society, ditch your heritage, make the Japanese nationals richer and wipe the asses of the aging ones, then go back home when you get old.

[GoNative]

I'm all for countries breaking down their borders and losing their all so special cultures. We all can learn something from other cultures including Japan. I actually look forward to the day where borders are meaningless. Where we are just people of the world rather than Japanese, Australians, Americans, etc. Maybe a bit pie in the sky stuff but I don't believe much good has ever come of national boundaries and selfish national interests except a whole lot of wars.

[RealJames]

the concept of preserving Japanese culture and heritage by reducing immigrants is nonsense,
most kids nowadays in Japan have no strong feelings towards Japan and are getting more and more westernized by the day. the place is rapidly losing it's cultural significance and they have almost all descended into cheap tourist traps and souvenir items.
yes, cultural heritage is more vibrant in Japan than in many other countries, I'm just saying it's in rapid decline, and that before long it'll be museum material

[GoNative]

I don't totally agree James. I think there are aspects of the culture here that will always remain very distinctly Japanese regardless of any outside influences.
The thing they find hard to cope with is the idea of multiculturlism. Allowing numerous cultures to flourish in somewhat harmony with each other. Of course in practice there are always some issues to overcome with multiculturalism but from my experience in Australia (a country that has annual immigration intake of between 150 and 250 thousand people) most of the issues are sorted out within a couple of generations. Of course those that like to hang onto some ideal of their national identity and the racists never quite jump on board with the idea of multiculturalism

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I don't totally agree James. I think there are aspects of the culture here that will always remain very distinctly Japanese regardless of any outside influences.
The thing they find hard to cope with is the idea of multiculturlism. Allowing numerous cultures to flourish in somewhat harmony with each other. Of course in practice there are always some issues to overcome with multiculturalism but from my experience in Australia (a country that has annual immigration intake of between 150 and 250 thousand people) most of the issues are sorted out within a couple of generations. Of course those that like to hang onto some ideal of their national identity and the racists never quite jump on board with the idea of multiculturalism

I'm from Canada, spent a lot of time in Montreal, multiculturalism is nice trust me I love it.

What I'm more worried about is Japan losing it's culture on it's own lol, due mostly to western media influence on it's youth.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RealJames

most kids nowadays in Japan have no strong feelings towards Japan and are getting more and more westernized by the day. the place is rapidly losing it's cultural significance and they have almost all descended into cheap tourist traps and souvenir items.

And then the teens and 20s end.

This is something that has been repeated over and over for the past countless generations.
Those men and women in their 40s and 50s who go on long trips to walk the full temple-route in Shikoku, or Kumamoto, or any of the other historical routes... Are the same men and women who said Japan sucked and who jumped 100% into Western music and culture 20 or 30 years ago.

Those in their 60s and 70s who take pride in traditional dance and kimono wearing... Are the same ones who shunned anything Japanese and who would save for months to buy the newest western fashions.
The little old women in their 80s and 90s who wear almost nothing but handmade traditional clothing... Are the same ones who snuck around under their parents noses buying fabric to make their own "western" dresses.

People get older and lose their immaturity regarding their country and cultural identities.

Just like so many young people in the US, UK, etc say they hate their country, etc etc - And then grow out of it to often become deeply (albeit quietly) patriotic after gaining some years and experience outside their own backyards... The same thing happens with young people in Japan.

It`s almost a worldwide tradition. The young person wants to go live in the "big modern city"... Then misses home and eventually moves back when they`re older. Even if it doesn`t happen in action, it happens internally.

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I'm all for countries breaking down their borders and losing their all so special cultures. We all can learn something from other cultures including Japan. I actually look forward to the day where borders are meaningless. Where we are just people of the world rather than Japanese, Australians, Americans, etc. Maybe a bit pie in the sky stuff but I don't believe much good has ever come of national boundaries and selfish national interests except a whole lot of wars.

O...kay, if like you said you were all for borders breaking and countries losing their cultures, how can you learn said cultures when they've all been lost, except for in museums?
In my opinion, holding up borders is the main way a country keeps it's cultures. And cultures are what makes a country what it is. Apart from maybe avoiding some wars (not all, war for oil etc) I don't see what seems so great about complete culture loss.

You'd rather live in a boring world where everyone and everything's the same? No culture, no heritage, just.... people?
I can't imagine how bad a world like that would seem, not to mention all the money lost from absolutely no tourism. Why would you want to travel to a country if it's exactly the same as your own, after all?