Do you think Japan's declining birth rate will cause it to increase immigration?

[Umihito]

Woah, talk about food for thought here!

I'll have to read over GoNative's and Ronin4hire's posts a few times to get the gist of what they're talking about before I can contribute any further. XD

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Attempt all you like to make out that Japan's policies on immigration are not that disimilar to the UK or Australia but you are wrong. There is a world of difference. I actually don't understand what point you are trying to make. I believe this country could benefit greatly from having a structured immigration intake similar to what the UK and Australia has. I also think it would be good if it took on some of the humanitarian responsibility that most developed nations have in taking in a few refugees. I believe the reluctance of the government here to implement such policies is hampered by the exnophobia found in the general populace (it's not good for votes). Xenphobia that I believe was fostered by the previous right wing government that ruled this country for what seemed like an eternity. There was a lot of hope that some changes might occur when a new government was finally elected but not much seems to have occurred thus far...

The point I'm trying to make is that these policies in themselves do not them xenophobic.

I'm familiar with some of the things Japanese ministers in the past have said.. but to be honest I've seen about the same sort of xenophobic shit said from former Australian Prime minister regarding the plight of Australian aboriginals and his comments regarding Islam as well as other Australian MPs.

Xenophobia found in the general populace? Not to me. I've lived in Japan and found that this is just not true. There is a level of ignorance regarding the outside world that I found fairly common... but it's hardly xenophobic and I would go as far as saying that Japan is as xenophobic a society as Australia or New Zealand and the UK.

[SINRT]

I came across this discussion randomly and registered to post a reply. I'm an American that lives in Singapore and has a high degree of familiarity with Japan, but wouldn't call myself any sort of expert.

A few thoughts:

-Japan clearly values social order, structure, hierarchy, etc more than most countries and its culture reflects this.

-Perceptions by foreigners of Japanese xenophobia are generally related to the point above: Behaviour which isn't in line with Japanese ideas of orderliness, structure, manners, etc is looked down upon or avoided. This is the root cause of "Japanse Only" signs at businesses or people avoiding foreigners, not some inherent dislike of foreigners.

-Similar to this, I think the primary issue Japan has with immigration is not economic ("they're stealing our jobs") but rather social. Immigrants in significant numbers cause social problems and disruptions (France, California, South Africa, Malaysia, etc) and Japan more than other countries values its structure.

-I agree 100% with the poster above about Japanese youth "growing up". Youth cultural trends are no indication of where the the country is going.
America's 1960's San Francisco hippies are calculating their 401K pension contributions in Houston now. Tokyo Rock'n'roll hipsters in Levis from the 80's are raising kids in Saitama today, grumbling about the price of groceries.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by SINRT

I came across this discussion randomly and registered to post a reply. I'm an American that lives in Singapore and has a high degree of familiarity with Japan, but wouldn't call myself any sort of expert.

A few thoughts:

-Japan clearly values social order, structure, hierarchy, etc more than most countries and its culture reflects this.

-Perceptions by foreigners of Japanese xenophobia are generally related to the point above: Behaviour which isn't in line with Japanese ideas of orderliness, structure, manners, etc is looked down upon or avoided. This is the root cause of "Japanse Only" signs at businesses or people avoiding foreigners, not some inherent dislike of foreigners.

-Similar to this, I think the primary issue Japan has with immigration is not economic ("they're stealing our jobs") but rather social. Immigrants in significant numbers cause social problems and disruptions (France, California, South Africa, Malaysia, etc) and Japan more than other countries values its structure.

-I agree 100% with the poster above about Japanese youth "growing up". Youth cultural trends are no indication of where the the country is going.
America's 1960's San Francisco hippies are calculating their 401K pension contributions in Houston now. Tokyo Rock'n'roll hipsters in Levis from the 80's are raising kids in Saitama today, grumbling about the price of groceries.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

Thanks for registering to reply!

Yeah, the main reason it's being considered is because of the ageing population, rather than the companies wanting to save money with immigrant workers.
And you're right about not wanting disruptions to social values. If it wasn't a problem then I think Japan would be well on it's way to writing up plans to open its doors to foreigners to solve its age crisis.

[spoonybard]

I don't know if anybody else posted this, but I don't think letting in immigrants will make a difference unless they all start marrying Japanese people, since the children are not considered Japanese unless at least one parent is Japanese.

[tokusatsufan]

Hmm. I never know what they think about foreigners. I'm never quite sure.
Like,on one hand they aren't major cast members on TV shows,but then they are on quite a few adverts.

[bigeichmannglobestomper]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Japan's declining birth rate is an immense problem. Japan has a lot of social programs to fund, and these were over-optimistically planned with a growing population in mind. Apparently no one in the Japanese government figured out that the high taxation required to subsidize the government and these programs would 1, make it more difficult for families to afford children, and 2, lead to the wholesale outsourcing of labor to foreign countries. As a result, people are having fewer and fewer children, and there are less and less jobs for those whom remain.

Another problem is that Japan is quite a xenophobic country, and has far fewer foreigners in it's workforce than any other developed country. Even when Japan was allowing Brazilians to come to work in the auto factories, special preference was given to Brazilians with Japanese ancestry. The Japanese are a polite people, but this politeness masks a long-standing fear/dislike of foreigners. As the labor market continues to shrink, Japan will absolutely not import any foreign laborers into the country. In fact, those Brazilan auto workers who came during he boom times are being encouraged to leave. Since they were not Japanese, or fully Japanese, they were the first ones to lose their jobs when production slowed down. Rather than pay long-term unrpemployment benefits, the government prefers simply to send them back to Brazil.

Xenophobic? Perhaps Japan should start by diversifying its military occupation by allowing more countries to build bases on Japanese soil. Perhaps Israel should be permitted to build a few IDF bases here and there. Don't forget to provide Kosher food for the more judaically observant soldiers. You wouldn't want to be anti-Semitic now, would you?

Isn't the Yamaguchi-Guchi somewhat diverse with their allowing Koreans to become gang members? Yakuza are progressives! Things are looking up.

You are free to label a people or a nation as "xenophobic," but please don't assume that Japan's problems are due to its lack of diversity. Look at the problems America has.

Where are Japan's culture warriors? They need the equivalent of Fox News to counter NHK.

[Ryzorian]

America has "problems" not because of the huge number of different cultures that comprise it but because too many people spend too much time trying to "Diversify a United States" and not not enough time realizeing it's the Unity that gives the country power.

[TalnSG]

I think immigration would only be a temporary fix, at best.

The main factors leading to the low birth rate are not the lack of adults to produce children.

They are:
1 - Population density. New immigrant will make this worse and the rate could drop even further. It is a biological fact that in high density populations, the fertility of mammals decreases significantly.
2 - Economic. When commodities reach the point that it takes both parents working full time to provide enough income to raise children, then two things tend to happen. Women stop bearing children because of the stress of motherhood and a career (not impossible, but difficult) and couples tend to find distractions that make parenting less desirable.

Immigrants will not help either of these situations.

[Umihito]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I learned that South Korea has a 'family day' in which workers are allowed to go home early on a day of the week to get busy, to try and encourage them to have children to increase their population.

Does Japan have anything like this, or does it plan to?