I really need help from the fathers out there.

[FeyOberon]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

I desperately need some advice and support.

Well, I don't have much in the way of advice I can offer, but I do want to give you support. From what I know of you, you are a very level-headed, intelligent guy who will be a great father. Just the fact that you have made the difficult dicision to be there for your son or daughter shows that you have the maturity necessary to be a good parent.

Also, having a first child is always daunting and scary, even when it is completely planned and both parents think they are ready -- so fear and trepidation is normal. Your life won't be the same as you may have envisioned it, but it is definietly not over.

I'm sure your child will love and respect you for your devotion.

I sincerelly wish you well.

[RealJames]

Since it's the Japan Forum, I thought I'd do some digging so I asked my gf about it a little.

She said in Japan apparently fathers seem to have the "right" to not take responsibility.
She said if a woman takes a man to court she might get some money out of him, alimony-wise I mean, but that the court process in Japan is incredibly lengthy, costly, and tiring. She also said that a father can deny being the father in which case the child is fatherless on paper and some women offer "if you accept to be his father legally then I will ask no money of you and you don't need to be a part of the child's life".

So it would seem that in Japan the "rights" of the man are stronger than in other (western?) countries with respect to pregnancies.

Like I said, this is from my gf's mouth and her experiences. I couldn't substantiate any of it with documentation cuz that (legal) kanji level is so far beyond what I can do!

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

He wanted advice from other men on this...

Didn't stop all you women jumping in though did it?

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Didn't stop all you women jumping in though did it?

Ha ha dead right!!!

why the heck should men just be able to skedaddle when it suits them. They've done it for long enough already. too damned easy for them.

Now if men were the ones who became pregnant and had to go through the whole pregnancy and labour process. then still have to bring the child up by themselves?


Men have always had it better in this world where Womens rights are concerned.

After all if a man could count the number of possible pregnancies he could produce with every woman he sleeps with.

thinking of another thread here about sex--- or shall I say frivolous attitude towards it!!

There is much I could say--------------

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Since it's the Japan Forum, I thought I'd do some digging so I asked my gf about it a little.

She said in Japan apparently fathers seem to have the "right" to not take responsibility.
She said if a woman takes a man to court she might get some money out of him, alimony-wise I mean, but that the court process in Japan is incredibly lengthy, costly, and tiring. She also said that a father can deny being the father in which case the child is fatherless on paper and some women offer "if you accept to be his father legally then I will ask no money of you and you don't need to be a part of the child's life".

So it would seem that in Japan the "rights" of the man are stronger than in other (western?) countries with respect to pregnancies.

Like I said, this is from my gf's mouth and her experiences. I couldn't substantiate any of it with documentation cuz that (legal) kanji level is so far beyond what I can do!

HA HA HA surprise surprise surprise!

what about DNA tests?

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

When it comes to children mens rights are actually pretty skewed. It's one of the few areas they have a disadvantage.

that is TRUe where many men wish to have custody of their child/ren. You are correct there and that needs sorting out.

too many women have the power to prevent access to their child-- not knowing if any fear of abuse is there-- but I agree that men should have the same rights to accessing or taking custody of their own child as women.

It is the Family courts and social workers who influence the outcomes.


Social workers dictated the Life I ws to lead as a child so they are not my favourite sort of people as they have way too much power.

[NanteNa]

I'm quite surprised that you'd return to this forum with a thread like this. I'm gonna greet you with a 'Congratulations' and a virtual hug - because honestly... a child is not the worst thing that can happen to you.

I know that it may seem incredibly scary, but if your parents aren't supportive of you in this, they don't deserve calling themselves parents... How can you indicate towards your own child, that if they follow a certain path of life (having a child at an early age), then your gonna cut them off? That doesn't sound like parental love to me. I'm not trying to bring your parents down, but I've known you for a while. You're a great person and I'm COMPLETELY confident that you're gonna be an awesome dad. Hell, I'd trust you with my kids if I got the chance.

What you need to do now is focus on what you CAN do, instead of strangling yourself with thoughts of what you can't do. It's not impossible to go to Uni and be a parent - a lot of young girls here do it all the time (and their boyfriends didn't even bother enough to stay by their side). Are there any parental groups for young fathers or young parents in general near where you live? Cause what you need the most right now is support.. It's really frustrating, I can imagine, but you need to convince yourself that everything is gonna be fine..

When the baby is born, and you look into those gentle eyes, hold those tiny hands and feel the warmth coming from that tiny body when you hold them - you'll be ashamed for thinking that life is already over cause of this. Again, a child is DEFINITELY not the worst thing that can happen to people.

BTW; if you need a talk.. I'm only a PM away :3

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

I did understand your analogy, Ronin. I just addressed them in a different order.

It's your car, right Ronin. You tell who can get in, and who cannot. You tell where the car goes, and where it doesn't. Where your car goes is your responsibility, no?

If the car is the penis then yes... You are responsible.

Your analogy works for STD's. But not pregnancy. If we change the analogy to be you parking your car but then ending up having to pay a ticket for an unmarked parking area perhaps it more accurate.

But even then we're missing the other person which I said makes all the difference.

Originally Posted by MMM

Yes, it takes two to tango (unless one is raping the other). When we say it takes two to tango that means both people are responsible for the results. Are you disagreeing with this?

Sure both people are responsible. But the dilemma being presented here is that only one person is making the decision. Which is ultimately fine... but I don't think men should be in any way obliged to support a child that they do not wish to raise from the very beginning.

Originally Posted by MMM

Then please explain it to me.

If you are saying my analogies are inaccurate, please explain how.

Fundamentally, are you not responsible for your actions.

Just to be clear, I am not saying people shouldn't have sex. People should have all the sex they want and all the sex they can get. All I am saying is take responsibility for your actions. I am hearing "I didn't MEAN to have a baby," and "I wore a condom so..." So what? If you make a baby, and your girl wants to keep it, you are going to be a father. That's reality. It's not a judgement call or a moral finger-point. It's reality. You can either be a man and be your child's father, or be a dead-beat dad and hit the road.

I've explained above.

But I don't disagree with your final statement. I think it's funny how you say it's not a judgement or a moral finger point and then say that you're a man for making one choice and a deadbeat making the other.

If during the first stages of pregnancy when a woman can still abort, but she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, I don't think you're less of a man for abandoning the child.

She should be free to make her decision to keep the child if she so wants and live with the consequences (another reason why your analogy doesn't work because it places no responsibility on the woman) and the man should be free to choose whether to support it or not.

Bear in mind once a woman passes the stage in her pregnancy where she cannot abort, THEN I agree that the man is obliged to take care of it .. but up untill then it's fine in my opinion.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

But I don't disagree with your final statement. I think it's funny how you say it's not a judgement or a moral finger point and then say that you're a man for making one choice and a deadbeat making the other.

If during the first stages of pregnancy when a woman can still abort, but she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, I don't think you're less of a man for abandoning the child.

She should be free to make her decision to keep the child if she so wants and live with the consequences (another reason why your analogy doesn't work because it places no responsibility on the woman) and the man should be free to choose whether to support it or not.

Bear in mind once a woman passes the stage in her pregnancy where she cannot abort, THEN I agree that the man is obliged to take care of it .. but up untill then it's fine in my opinion.

When a parent abandons their child, it's called being a deadbeat. It's a socially agreed upon term.

Deadbeat parent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But this is where the fundamental disagreement lies, and where the debate takes place all over the world.

You say it's OK for a man to walk away from a child he doesn't want. The problem is, a child is not a bicycle or an anthill, that won't be affected by the loss of the man. A baby will be. Whether or not it is still in the mother or not doesn't matter.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

When a parent abandons their child, it's called being a deadbeat. It's a socially agreed upon term.

Deadbeat parent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure.. it was the juxtaposition with "being a man" that I was referring to more than anything.

Originally Posted by MMM

But this is where the fundamental disagreement lies, and where the debate takes place all over the world.

You say it's OK for a man to walk away from a child he doesn't want. The problem is, a child is not a bicycle or an anthill, that won't be affected by the loss of the man. A baby will be. Whether or not it is still in the mother or not doesn't matter.

It will be affected sure. But that can be compensated for. Single parents don't necessarily raise bad kids.

But this just brings me back to my point. Whether she can take care of it on her own is what the mother will have to assess for herself if she is willing to decide for herself and keep the baby without the consent from the man.