Re Abortions

[princessmarisa]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

I guess it depends on wether you believe the unborn child is human and has as much right to life as any other human. That's the core arguement really, is the unborn child just a mass of cells that is no more "alive" than your liver, or is it in fact "John, Mary, Wanda, William"?

When is it alive? is it ever alive? can we decide that at 3 months? 7 months? 15 years? How bout late term abortions? should we allow those past 9 months? what about someone who survived an abortion, should the mother be allowed to abort them later when they are a teenager? What if the mother decides the baby's hair is the wrong color? is that ok for an abortion?

Some may laugh off the arguement, but it happened before. It's called ugenics and it was practiced by the Nazi's.

*eugenics and it was a bit more complicated than liking hair colour but if that is how you want to simply it to yourself fine, but when telling others about things we need to be more objective and less slap-dash instantly attaching negative connotations without the full picture is never a valid approach.

A more accurate simplification is that Eugenics was the idea that we can genetically select the strongest genes to create a better human race for all humanity. It was corrupted into powerful individual's and group's ideas of what the better genes are, instead of as it was originally intended, based on a scientific approach of what would benefit us the most.
Genetic testing to warn parents if the pregnancy has a chance of certain diseases to give them the chance to abort, is not a dissimilar idea, just not taken as far.

Eugenics was never designed to give individual mothers the choice of hair colour, eye colour and other such aesthetic issues.


I don't think the debate of when something becomes an individual entity or "alive" as you put it goes beyond birth in any circles. So it is ridiculous to suggest that it is theoretically going to be legal to "abort" a 15year old.
Reel in the hyperbole here.

You are right that the debate of when a foetus becomes its own life is where most of the debate on abortion centres from.
For me I believe this moment to be birth, when it becomes separate from the mothers body. Until then it is part of her, like any other, to do with as she pleases. Arguments about it being alive/moving/growing/changing could be applied to tumours so don't interest me.

The only interesting debates on this are around the value we place on it's potential to become life, but if we go down this route we would have to start banning all contraception as that stops potential life, therefore if we allow potential life to be stopped in such ways, we cannot then use it in an argument to deny it being stopped in another method.

Others believe it is the time it could survive on it's own (but with science advancing soon this will be the same as the moment of conception, so again it becomes a near impossible and very impractical situation)

Abortion is the mothers choice as it is part of her body is the nice simple way I can put my views.

[dogsbody70]

for goodness sake Have you looked at those videos of scans of babies in the womb>


It is a living creature-- Not just some damned unwanted piece of meat to be discarded so easily.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

for goodness sake Have you looked at those videos of scans of babies in the womb>


It is a living creature-- Not just some damned unwanted piece of meat to be discarded so easily.

Until it has developed brain function it is no more a living creature than the millions of living creatures I have in my balls.

If abortion is murder then everytime a man splooges he is committing murder lol.

[princessmarisa]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

for goodness sake Have you looked at those videos of scans of babies in the womb>


It is a living creature-- Not just some damned unwanted piece of meat to be discarded so easily.

Don't be so influenced by things you see on the T.V that make you feel sad and wobbly inside.
All cells are living, a tumour growing might look quite pretty and amazing under the ultrasound or microscope.
If your next line is that this is more than that it will become a person, then as Ronin4hire said everytime sperm gets wasted or a girl has a period the potential for life is aborted and you don't see anyone (Other than maybe some extreme religious sects) getting up in arms about this.

No one said it was an easy choice to discard it, just that is is a choice the mother who has to carry and grow the foetus has, and no one should want to take this choice from her or judge her for making it.

[evanny]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

If abortion is murder then everytime a man splooges he is committing murder lol.

agree. and any women that has had more than one period is a serial killer.

[princessmarisa]

Originally Posted by evanny

agree. and any women that has had more than one period is a serial killer.

Pretty much what I just said, glad to see some people here are on the same page

[RobinMask]

Post Deleted.

[princessmarisa]

Originally Posted by RobinMask

You asked people's opinions on abortion. Please don't get so het up when you don't agree! The issue of what is life is a good one, and I'm very interested in the other posters' views of what constitutes life, but - please - your opinion isn't the only one. You do sound very cruel and closed-minded at times.

I think we've all seen the scans of babies in the womb, and I would argue that abortion at 22/24 weeks is perhaps unethical, because the babies do sometimes survive at that stage of development, which does give evidence that - if they can survive on their own - that they are in fact 'alive'. I do wonder when a baby is 'alive' though - two hours, five weeks, seven months? I do know that the Catholic church once gave a set amount of days for when a baby had a 'soul' or was 'alive', and up until a certain point in pregnancy didn't consider the child as alive (whether they still do, I don't know), which does go to show even in religion it isn't black and white, there is always debate.

This is really interesting I did not know that about Catholicism ,I always thought they counted the point of conception as the start of life, and anything preventing this is murder hence why until very recently Catholic's opposed condoms so heavily.

Dogsbody, It is always difficult to debate on peoples ethics I feel, but we do need to keep clear of overly emotive statements/shock tactics such as scans, and also keep our own personal experiences separate from what our morals/logic lead us to.

[RobinMask]

Post Deleted.

[Kayci]

I had a non-surgical abortion
Its an option up until nine weeks
I was six weeks

I get a lot of hell
but so many things would have gone wrong for me, physically, emotionally, mentally, and such if I kept it.

So many issues rose out of it.
I never wanted to be in that position...but when planned parenthood ignores your concerns on your birth control and calls it "side effects..." and it turns out its signs of not working...yeah....



oddly enough, the baby was due around now...if I kept it.

But its funny
you wanted people's opinions, then got offended when they didn't agree.
Sad.