Re Abortions

[SCIFFIX]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Killing a person is killing a life that already exists. Something that can think, feel, make decisions and is aware of it's existence.

Having an abortion is like having a heavy period and losing some cells. (In the early stages of pregnancy.) To me. To others, it might be murder.

When the point is reached when the collection of cells become a life, is debatable. Some people think it's after 12 weeks, some after 24, some at the moment of conception, some at birth. That's a subjective thing to do with your beliefs based on science and religion.

So for you is wrong a woman go to a clinic and commit an abortion in the last stages of pregnancy, something like 7 months or more.

But the fetus isn't a life form in potential (it has great probabilities in develop in to a complete life form) ? So, in your point of view it's not something like kill but is a form to avoid this "incomplete" life form to live ?

[RobinMask]

Post Deleted.

[NanteNa]

Originally Posted by SCIFFIX

So for you is wrong a woman go to a clinic and commit an abortion in the last stages of pregnancy, something like 7 months or more.

At least here in Denmark it's HIGHLY illegal to get an abortion that late.. There are limitations to when it's "possible" to get an abortion at a clinic.
Carrying a child for 7 months (where it's grown to a pretty full size) and THEN realizing that you don't want it... oh please..

Originally Posted by SCIFFIX

could someone give your opnion about this point:

what is the difference between kill a person and commit an abortion?

If you kill a person, you kill a living creature that probably already walked this earth for a while. An 'actual' person (don't get me wrong, babies aren't just pieces of meat) has developed a spine, organs, nervous system, personality, etc. - a baby inside a belly, who hasn't even taken its first breath has none of these things yet. Getting an abortion is pretty normal.. Nature ''commits'' abortions all the time, but you don't go knock over a hundred trees and call Mother Nature a murderer because of it.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

While I don`t want to get involved in any debate about abortion itself... I think there are some flaws in the arguments you present.
There are just as many children who were "wanted" that end up abused as those who weren`t wanted. A person who makes a selfish decision to have a baby because they want a cute little pet person is a lot more likely to end up neglecting or abusing the child once they realize that it`s not just an accessory.

This is a very bad example. Postpartum depression is said to be far more common in mothers who DO want their children.

I do have an issue with "selfish" abortions - the kind where the mother didn`t really bother with birth control because she can always get an abortion.
If you don`t want / cannot care for a baby, do your very best not to get pregnant... And if you do, abortion should be the last resort and should be done ASAP.

I guess I didn't put it right. I was referring to mothers who DID NOT want their babies - I'm aware that many women do.. and that many women who DO want them, also may end up neglecting them at some point.

I got my information wrong then. I took psychology in high school (NOT an American high school, though!), and we discussed some of these topics along with Freud's theories and Bern's. A lot of birth depressions come down to the mother not feeling ''good enough'' already from the beginning, she begins to hear voices that tell her to do things to the child, because the baby would be much better off without her. Usually hormonal changes occur at early stages and it builds up a maturity level that'll prep the mother for giving birth and not ''fearing'' it the same way as I personally would.. Anyway, to me a birth depression is a lot like schizophrenia - it's just triggered by the whole ''expecting a baby'' drama.

Agreed! Though, I have yet to see a woman/girl use abortions as ''birth control''. Here it's considered a safety net. No one dares to use it 'regularly', because it carries high risks for the uterus and internal parts in general. Again, there are usually ''regulations'' for when you can get the abortion. The procedure is preferably done ASAP and I'm pretty sure (as mentioned) that there are strict rules for how long the baby is allowed to have been 'in there'.

[SCIFFIX]

Originally Posted by NanteNa

At least here in Denmark it's HIGHLY illegal to get an abortion that late.. There are limitations to when it's "possible" to get an abortion at a clinic.
Carrying a child for 7 months (where it's grown to a pretty full size) and THEN realizing that you don't want it... oh please..

If you kill a person, you kill a living creature that probably already walked this earth for a while. An 'actual' person (don't get me wrong, babies aren't just pieces of meat) has developed a spine, organs, nervous system, personality, etc. - a baby inside a belly, who hasn't even taken its first breath has none of these things yet. Getting an abortion is pretty normal.. Nature ''commits'' abortions all the time, but you don't go knock over a hundred trees and call Mother Nature a murderer because of it.

hahahaha bad Mother Nature

So for you a abortion commited by Mother Nature is the same as an abortion commited by a normal woman...

I'm not defending pro-abortion neither anti-abortion. In most cases people defending anti-abortion or pro-abortion presents very weak arguments to prove what they believe, I just want to know in a deeper way the opnion of the people here.

And what about the abortion in the country of people here :
is it proibited?
If not, in what kind of case the mother can use this resource?
If is proibited, why is proibited?
what are the requirements to get an abortion according with your country law?

Anyone know a woman who decided to abort?
Why she decided to abort?

[dogsbody70]

often when a woman has a miscarriage there is something wrong with the foetus or baby or she cannot contain it for some reason.


Nature is supposed to know best-- what about the babies that are born prematurely? Many can be kept alive from very early stages these days.


BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Q&A: Abortion law


BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Abortion result 'unpredictable'


Abortion Rights

[GoNative]

All this talk about all life being sacred and such just really gets up my nose and generally reeks of hypocrasy. People get all worked up over abortion, how it's destroying life or potential life but then quite happily go about their nice 1st world lifestyles whilst near 10,000 children die each and every day around the world from completely preventable hunger related illnesses. If life is so incredibly precious are you willing to give up your 1st world privaledged lifestyle to save those in less fortunate countries?
These same people who claim life is so precious are also some of the same people who aren't too keen on allowing desperate refugees into their countries. You see this is where the hypocrasy comes into it. Life is all sooo precious to these people but only really in certain circumstances and only really as long as it doesn't affect their own lifestyles. It's all crap. One thing we should all know by now is that around the world life is not precious at all. In fact life is incredibly cheap. And we also know that life is much more precious if you're white rather than black, brown or some other shade. And we all allow by our inactions completely unnecessary deaths to occur all the time. To then get on your high horses and claim abortions are a waste of life is just so hypocritical it's ridiculous.

[Ryzorian]

Hello? those country's are starveing because they are over run with warlords, slave traders ( who happen to be arbian or black, not white) pirates, gangs and tyranical dictators. There isn't Jack we can do about that, last time we tried, we got world condemnation and two blackhawks shot down. . Those nations are thier own worst enemies and have caused the majority of thier problems. So no, that isn't the US's fault.

I would also point out that US spends more on charity and food than the rest of the world combined. So no, our horse isn't that high.

Plus, that has nothing to do with the issue of wether I think human life begins at conception or not. Those are all unfortuanate situations and it's a horrible thing, but I can't do anything about that. Nor am I going to be lead on some guilt trip because I happen to live a decent lifestyle, the US earned what it has through hard work, blood, sweat and tears.

[alisia]

I am 100% pro-choice. If a woman wants to get an abortion, she should have every right to have one. Someone should not be forced to bring a child into this world if they believe they are not capable of having one nor if adoption not an option.

[GoNative]

There's plenty that could be done to improve the lot of the 3rd world if 1st world countries (not just the almight US of bloody A) were prepared to reduce the quality of their own lifestyles (but of course they aren't). The incredible inequities we see between countries is only there because of greed. You value your life and those of Americans above those of other countries. Hence you can live your affluent lifestyle without much of a care for those that can't even feed themselves. This just proves the point that we don't value all human life equally. So to me to get all principled on things like abortion just reeks of hypocrasy.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

often when a woman has a miscarriage there is something wrong with the foetus or baby or she cannot contain it for some reason.

Or there is something wrong with her. Or it`s just a total fluke. Or... The body figures that a baby could not survive the circumstances.
The body has mechanisms that can initiate a miscarriage (or prevent pregnancy to begin with...) when it feels that the baby has a low chance of survival. In first world countries this is pretty rare - bodies aren`t often put in serious long term situations of stress. But even if the body is perfectly cared for, emotional issues (just not wanting the baby) alone can sometimes be strong enough to trigger one.

Nature is supposed to know best-- what about the babies that are born prematurely? Many can be kept alive from very early stages these days.

Sure, they can be kept alive. But in the long term is that really best for them? Babies born very early are often born for similar reasons as a miscarriage would happen at earlier stages - something wrong with the baby, something wrong with the mother's body, etc.
Thinking of the babies themselves... Have you ever seen what they do to premature babies? They suffer through countless horrific procedures, know virtually nothing but endless pain, all in the slim hope that they`ll survive (most don`t)... And those who do survive end up more often than not with serious health and developmental issues.

-------------

Anyway, I think that a lot of people confuse support for the choice to have an abortion with support for abortions (as in feeling they`re a positive thing), and support for later term abortions. I have never met anyone who approves of allowing abortions after it even looks like a tiny baby, let alone after viability. Come to think of it, I don`t really think I`ve ever encountered someone who even thought abortions were a positive thing at all. The opinion seems to be that they are a negative thing, but a better option that some others and a last resort choice that should be available.