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01-20-2011, 04:09 AM
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Happy to live in a dog eat dog sort of world where the strongest survive and thrive but having abortions is wrong? Damn you're a mixed up individual... 
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01-20-2011, 10:04 AM
Why even worry about the terminology?
I consider myself anti-abortion - but I also consider myself pro-choice. I can personally be against whatever I like, but it`s not my place to cast judgement on, or to control what other people do with their lives. It is their choice to make. Me choosing another option is no different. I`d personally prefer that people didn`t make irresponsible choices, but I`d rather a choice be available... Not because I want them to make a choice I don`t like, but because in denying someone else the ability to make their own choices there is little I could say should someone deny me the ability to make my own choices. One cannot assume that their choices and opinions are "right" for anyone but themselves. You also never know what will happen and how your outlook will change. While I consider myself anti-abortion, I was put in a situation where I ended up choosing to abort a pregnancy. It was inevitable, we were given pretty much no hope of the pregnancy being viable - but the doctors wanted to wait for there to be a clear danger to my health so that it would be completely covered by insurance (abortion when there is hope of survival for the child, however low the chances may be, is elective). I`m not religious, but would prefer not to actively "kill" something with a beating heart... We opted for the elective procedure very early in the pregnancy so that I could feel better about not having stopped a heart. Even though I do not like abortion, still can`t say I approve of abortion as a way to prevent an unwanted child... And do not think I could or would ever be able to bring myself to have one to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy... I am very glad that the choice was available.
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01-21-2011, 03:19 AM
Go Native, I said that because us "helping" isn't helping the situation. We spend billions a year on preventable disease, billions more on food an rebuilding areas devestated by who knows what. It doesn't change the core problem of why most of these third world nations are full of starveing, poverty stricken people. It's the warlords, crime bosses, dictators, slavers and pirates that rule these area's that are the problem.
Now unless you want the west to just go invadeing all those places willy nilly in the name of "the greater good" fine. But be ready for the world backlash, I mean really, if they are mad about a couple country's the US is in now, I'm sure they would really be upset if it was half the third world. Besides, last time we tried to feed starveing people we ended up with world condemnation and 2 downed blackhawks.... Also, I can't do anything about Africa, so why bring that up as an arguement? Sure it's unfortunate what happens there but I'm 12,000 miles away. It doesn't mean I don't hold thier lives any less valuable, life is life, it's either all precious or none of it is. However, worrying to death over 10,000 children I can't help, over perhaps saveing one I can, is wasteing time. Missmisa; I had a friend in Highschool who Survived an abortion..tell me, was she alive? because she was aborted before birth, so technically never was born and thus never became "alive". as your seeming to say. Would it be ok for her orginal birth mother to come back and "complete" the abortion she had 17 years before? because afterall..she was never "alive" anyway?
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01-21-2011, 07:52 AM
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For your friend to have survived, it would have had to have been a very late term abortion. I have yet to see ANYONE here support late term abortions. That is a completely different thing, and not what people who say they support choice are talking about. (At least any I have met.) I don`t think there is any doubt that at that stage it is a baby and very much alive. I am not MissMisa, so cannot say 100%, but I believe that what she meant by "not alive" is the VERY early stages of pregnancy. Before there is anything really "human-like". Before a nervous system has developed, and before there would be any awareness of pain. (Or awareness of anything, really.)
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01-21-2011, 09:26 AM
So Ryzorian I assume you would like to see the law changed to make abortions illegal? What exactly would that accommplish beyond having abortions go back underground? One of the main reasons they were made legal in the first place was women will seek out abortions regardless of the law and often end up turning to backyard practioners to get the job done. Like prohibition of anything really, it never works. Look how successful the US's war on drugs has been!
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01-21-2011, 03:01 PM
In the case of a human fetus the heart begins to beat around the 18th day, the central nervous-system 'appears' around the 6th week.
Most countries allow abortion up to the 12th week which means almost fully developed heart and nicely developed brain. Sure we can say there are still so many things to develop, but if you compare new born humans to new born animals(for example most mammals) you can see that human newborns are way too undeveloped, but no one would say they're not alive... In my opinion when someone aborts a baby it means the end of a life and not that some bacteria(-like-thing) dies or some undeveloped thing comes out of someone, it means the end of one life. The 12 weeks old baby surely can feel pain and aware of many things(it has brain, eyes, ears, hands and feet...), but even after the 18th day there is a heart which beats so I think the fetus is pretty much alive, and most of the abortions happens after that time. What I mean to say is that in many countries the laws are too easy along with the stance of the society. It's hard to draw the line but is necessary to keep things sanely. So there wouldn't be cases when young couples were experimenting, if they could get pregnant or not, and when they succeeded they just went to do the abortion. And yes there are the natural cases of abortion, along with (for example)the (natural) genetic diseases which can cause the natural death of an adult (or a fetus as well). And no one would say they shouldn't fight for their lives because it's natural for them to die... hold this in mind when you defend abortion with the reason of: 'nature does it too'. I honestly don't know how could be the prevention more effective, so there would be less unwanted babies, but for me it'd be the only solution. If you don't want a baby than don't hazard with it, and if you were so stupid that you're already pregnant than bear the consequences... and don't say abortion does not mean the end of a life to ease your heart, cause that's just ignorant and selfish. In other words: it's OK that women can chose weather they want the child or not, but when they do it shouldn't be an easy choice, they shouldn't lie themselves that it's just a simple operation, and it's almost nothing and it's far away from killing a human being...
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01-21-2011, 04:04 PM
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I'm not saying that I know best. This is a forum with threads in which you discuss your opinions and compare them to what other people think. I'm simply presenting my pov. Has nothing to do with me ''knowing best''. [ ♥<-- Jordan's heart! \(Ò_ó)/ ]
Follow me on TUMBLR "Well if a chick has a problem with the way I conduct myself I'd draw the bitch a map to the nearest exit and stamp "fuck off" on her forehead." - Pot Roast
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01-21-2011, 04:09 PM
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She was not alive legally(and also in my own morals alive at all as a separate entity) until she was born, then she was. Killing after they are separate, "alive" people is murder, what happens before then isn't. It doesn't matter if there were 6 failed abortions, it was just a not-alive thing they were trying to remove and failed. Once born it becomes a person, a she with rights and anything that happened before this point cannot be retrospectively applied. tl;dr she was alive the moment she was born and the cord cut, what happened before failed or not cannot be applied afterwards. Your friend was obviously not aborted, it was attempted-abortion. Would you say someone who survived attempted-murder should be killed afterwards because if something is attempted and didn't happen it must be done later on? Or this makes them not alive because they were attempted-murdered? No. She was born, so she is alive. How ridiculous to think that anyone, including miss misa was saying that if someone tries to abort you, even if it fails, you should no longer exist if you managed to be born anyway. 
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01-21-2011, 04:10 PM
surely it is alive when the heart is beating etc. its nonsense to say its not alive until its born.that is pie in the sky.
It could not develop at all if was dead. I am sure many miscarriages are when a baby has died inside the womb It sounds Miss Misa as though you will have to be very careful with contraception if you do not wish to have a pregnancy. At least you know what you want or do not want. its never easy. Until you face the situation you will not know what it is like. sorry but Princess I think your conception of what is alive or not is seriously flawed. without doubt the baby is alive while its heart is beating. we all die when our heart stops beating. premnature babies are born early but many survive if they get the correct treatment. If their heart hadn't been beating they would have been dead already. do you think you were not alive when in your own mothers womb? If so then you are a miracle. Is there a magic spell that causes a baby to be alive at birth but not before? Of course not--that would be nonsense. what do you think the umbilical cord is for?
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01-21-2011, 04:22 PM
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Yes the baby is smacked to help it to breathe--and a weak pup can be helped to take its first breath by moving it in a certain way but I am not comparing women to dogs at all actually bitches will often absorb puppies when there is something amiss with them I take it that You are familiar with the technique with puppies-- so what is your experience of that. I have helped bring many pups into the world but Never a human being. Having my own first baby took way too long and my baby died. I was petrified and left all alone-- it was scary. However you are wrong to say I am comparing humans with dog breeding.
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