Japanese views on sexual entertainment

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by MMM

Degradation means it causes humiliation and a loss of self-esteem. Are Sports Illustrated swimsuit models sexually degraded? If they are, why would anyone want to be one? But there is no shortage of women who strive to be on the cover of Sports Illustrated in a swimsuit. Does that mean models must have low self esteem because they allow their bodies to used to sell magazines or clothes?

I agree, it's definitely not degrading to many women who do modeling etc.

I also think it isn't degrading for many women who work as prostitutes or in other forms of sexual entertainment (stripping etc).
I also think that some women would feel degraded by working as swimsuit models. It's definitely up to the individual woman.

In fact if I had to flip burgers for a living I would feel degraded, humiliated, and at a loss of self esteem. But I think I could take some money for sex a few times without nearly as much damage.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RealJames

I agree, it's definitely not degrading to many women who do modeling etc.

I also think it isn't degrading for many women who work as prostitutes or in other forms of sexual entertainment (stripping etc).
I also think that some women would feel degraded by working as swimsuit models. It's definitely up to the individual woman.

In fact if I had to flip burgers for a living I would feel degraded, humiliated, and at a loss of self esteem. But I think I could take some money for sex a few times without nearly as much damage.

I think I agree with you. It really is up to the individual. One woman might say "I would never wear a tight tank top and short shorts for my work. I would feel like I am being leered at like a piece of meat." And then another woman might say "You want to pay me to wear a tight tank top and short shorts and look hot? Where do I sign up?"

It is a personal choice, as you said. Each person has a theoretical line.

I wouldn't feel degraded if I worked at a fast food restaurant. There is nothing degrading about working at fast food. I would feel like I was working at a level lower than my potential, however. I think that is different from being degraded.

I have been doing translation for several years. I have had people tell me that could not do this kind of work (even if they could do it) because it is "invisible". "I would want a job where I am heralded for my good work." I understand the thinking, but I have no personal need to have my name branded all over the work I do. I translate other people's words, so my name isn't important. Getting paid is, however.

[dogsbody70]

My goodness. MEN-- who wouldhave them

tell you what-- let the men be prostitutes-- after all women have needs also.


I get sickened by some attitudes on here.


Prostitution is an unfortunate necessity-- but do men ever think of how the women feel that they use. she pretends to be enjoying it!!! How many men in a day do they have to deal with?


The japanese have some wonderful looking sex dolls--- have you seen them?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

No idea what 'hooters' is so I can't comment.

Hooters is a chain of sports bar/restaurants in the US where the waitresses wear white tank-tops and short shorts. They are all ages and are known for their fried chicken wings.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

If prostitution is legal then I just find it distasteful, nothing more. In most developed countries it's not.

As far as I'm aware, most forms of prostitution in Japan are not legal, but at the same time not prosecuted. So therefore there are issues with the rights of the women.

I am going to speak on the global level. I totally agree with finding prostitution distasteful. It is not my cup of tea, either.

That being said, if women are not being prosecuted for illegal prostitution in Japan, how is that an "issue with the rights of women"?

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Stippers/models etc are arguably performance arts and these are not illegal, therefore there are rules in place, just as any workplace to maintain the safety of the women.

Legality and morality are two different things. Are you saying you support stripping and modeling, but not prostitution because it is illegal, where stripping and modeling are not? I am not trying to be difficult, but am trying to understand the argument.
Prostitution in general

Originally Posted by MissMisa

As a feminist I believe women should have the choice to know what's empowering, so even though I personally find such things distasteful, some women find it empowering and I have no problem with that.

Prostitution, however, is a dirty game. It's not something that empowers women. I can tell you right now that 90% of the people prostituting themselves would probably take another available option if they could. If they had been given the right opportunities - if they hadn't gone down the path that requires the money. Prostitution is not the same as regulated sexual entertainment. If you think the majority of women on the streets are empowered by this, then think again. Maybe it's because as a women you are not 'in-tune' with how women generally feel about their bodies being used in this way.

I am sure this is probably true, and is a good point. I think it is hard to say a prostitute probably feels "empowered". At the same time, what jobs do make a person feel "empowered"?

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Other people who do dangerous jobs, will at the end of it, usually have pride in their work. Prostitutes will never have that. Also, people will work in these jobs will still have the training, the safety equipment etc to help maintain safety. Prostitution has no-one to help you.

I have never been a prostitute, but I have seen the "Bunny Ranch" documentaries on TV (in Nevada state, where there is legal prostitution in the US) and the women there definitely take pride in their work. The risk factor, I agree, is still there.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

If you think it's fine to ignore the safety of these women and not at least try to give them the opportunities they might want or deserve, then that's pretty sad.

I don't think anyone is trying to deny anyone any real opportunity.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Also, nobody can be a prostitute forever. It's not a career, and it will ruin any future job prospects should someone find out. They might not care about it at the time, but when they money is running dry because they are old, they will do then. These women are usually young vunerable desperate women - not women who will think about their choices carefully and plan out their futures. So no, it's not a choice, the majority of time it's a forced situation.

This is surely true.

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Where I'm from, this is just morally wrong. We see men and women as equals and to sexually humiliate, violate and degrade them is seen as wrong (legally or not.) You can argue all you wan't that they are all fine and dandy with it, but they just aren't. Just because you may consent to something doesn't mean it's not exploitative.

I am not sure if this is totally true, and I mean that. I am not sure. Morally, I totally understand. If sex between two consenting adults is humiliation, I am not sure. To be honest, I think the shlub who is paying for sex is more humiliated (in some ways) than the woman who takes his money. Words like "violate" and "degrade" are judgement calls. I don't know what happens behind closed doors.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

My goodness. MEN-- who wouldhave them

tell you what-- let the men be prostitutes-- after all women have needs also.


I get sickened by some attitudes on here.


Prostitution is an unfortunate necessity-- but do men ever think of how the women feel that they use. she pretends to be enjoying it!!! How many men in a day do they have to deal with?


The japanese have some wonderful looking sex dolls--- have you seen them?

We would both agree that the men that employ these services are not bulwark leaders of their communities.

[evanny]

there are men who are prostitutes...didn't know, dogsbody?

MMM. i've seen documentaries about those girls in USA who are prostitutes legally. they were guarded like the president - all risk prevention actions where taken...i would say those girls are in more danger while walking in high-heel shoes than working as prostitutes.

for girls who do it legally i have no sympathy for and i do not condemn them - they want to do it, make very good money and they are in no danger. good for them.
the illeagal ones...most of them are drop outs too dumb to do anything else so they do only thing that's left for nice and easy money.
i'm only sorry for those who are among kidnapped or have other bad circumstances and then forced to be sex slaves .

[hanagata]

Yeah, I also saw that Bunny Ranch documentary and those girls seemed very proud of their work. So, no problem there.
But I've seen also other reportages where women working in prostitution end up crying after telling their life story, in which a lot of cases were truly sad. And they all wanted to quit, if they had other choice. For them I feel sorry. Doing a job you find repulsive, for need.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by evanny

there are men who are prostitutes...didn't know, dogsbody?

MMM. i've seen documentaries about those girls in USA who are prostitutes legally. they were guarded like the president - all risk prevention actions where taken...i would say those girls are in more danger while walking in high-heel shoes than working as prostitutes.

for girls who do it legally i have no sympathy for and i do not condemn them - they want to do it, make very good money and they are in no danger. good for them.
the illeagal ones...most of them are drop outs too dumb to do anything else so they do only thing that's left for nice and easy money.
i'm only sorry for those who are among kidnapped or have other bad circumstances and then forced to be sex slaves .

you have cheek envanny to say most prostitutes are dumb or drop outs.

There can be so many reasons why many girls are forced to do it because they have no other real choice.


Here in Uk many who were brought up in the care system are seen tout into the world with very little help or they are runaways who get hooked by PIMPs who pretend to care about them-- then before they know it they are heavily into drugs and forced on the sexual supply chain for men.

We read that Thailand is the place to go. How many of those girls are there willingly? How manyyoung girls ar ehanded over by their own families to the sex trade?


Yes I know there may be some male prostitutes-- but we do not usually hear about them do we?


It is also very dangerous. Never knowing what a man may do to them?


If a man had real respect for women-- he would consider them-- and not just treat them as vessels to be used for their own gratification.



Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world after all so I guess that when God Created Man and women he wasn't too fussy about how the female was treated .

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by MMM

We would both agree that the men that employ these services are not bulwark leaders of their communities.

HI MM well plenty of our politicians use prostitutes, and the police and I am sure many many others.


Its when they get found out!! they regret it.


I personally think it should be legalised in this country to do away with the sleazy under ground way many women are treated.

Obviously those women who advertise in magazines are Up for it?

There's alot of money in it after all-- but its when it is taken advantage of. Its those pimps etc who make the money out if innocent girls and women.


WHy do captured women in wars get raped?


I just wish there was some respect for these women by the men.

[evanny]

dogsbody. yes - most of them are dumb drop outs. they are too lazy to get a real, low paying job so they stick with the prostitution which brings enough money for all the needs.

and i said, that there is the part of girls that get sucked into it by unfortunate circumstances which is tragic. but i don't care about men/women who were too lazy to change their lives and have become prostitutes.