China

[siokan]

Golden Shield（･∀･）
"Cultural Revolution" "文化大革命"
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[Ryzorian]

Pumpum, Consider China like how England was dureing the Days of the Kings, before parliment. I suppose you had good King's and Bad ones but the majority of serfs lived pretty miseraby and tobad for them cause they were serf's and that was thier cast.

Sure China has large middle class, but that's mostly coastal, the interiour has nearly 600 million below the poverty line. The Chinese government works the 600 million to create the middle class of the 400 million. So i suppose how good it is in China depends on wether your one of the 400 million or 600 million.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by pumpum

ok Mods please dont delete this - i am trying to be serious honest to god.

I know this is japanforum but i have aquestion about China so it is kinda relevant. I live in England and all i ever hear about China is condemnation and bad stuff like dictatorship and communist etc. But what i dont understand is what China is actually doing wrong because as far as i can see the chinese people are not starving or dying, the country is almost a superpower and has a great army along with very serious growth. So yes China maybe ruled by dictatorship but i dont see any hardship, in fact i see quite a successful country!

By the way this is just my perspective, i admit i may be fully wrong on this but that is why i posted the question. Can somebody tell me what China does that is so wrong eg. is there anything a chinese person cant do that i can do here in the uk?

or am i right and there is actually an anti china bias here in the uk news.

Annexation of Tibet and oppression of Tibetan and Ughyr culture expression in Western China.

Persecution of political opposition or those percieved to be undermining the CCP (e.g. Falun Gong, Liu Xiaobo)

Censorship is just a small fry compared with all the other crimes against humanity China is guilty of.

[pumpum]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Pumpum, Consider China like how England was dureing the Days of the Kings, before parliment. I suppose you had good King's and Bad ones but the majority of serfs lived pretty miseraby and tobad for them cause they were serf's and that was thier cast.

Sure China has large middle class, but that's mostly coastal, the interiour has nearly 600 million below the poverty line. The Chinese government works the 600 million to create the middle class of the 400 million. So i suppose how good it is in China depends on wether your one of the 400 million or 600 million.

thanks for the analagy! can i ask though is it done like that intentionally or is that just the way it sort of happened - i mean every country has their poverty line even here in the so called western countries.

As for their persecution of certain groups - i feel bad for those groups but arent they trying to overthrow the government or cause de-stability? and so they are persecuted but in response?

[pumpum]

Originally Posted by JohnBraden

I don't live in China so I don't know anything personally.... All the information I know comes from other sources-sources that can be biased.... I don't have any "evidence".... I'm not an economist, so I can't explain to you what they're doing to the world's economies.... I don't work for Amnesty International so I don't know of any alleged "atrocities" or human rights violations.... etc....

And right now, I just don't have the time or patience to cater to your queries-queries that may be better answered in Chinaforum.com. You asked a question and I answered. If the answer wasn't the one you wanted, then it's not my fault nor my problem....

btw i just wanna point out that this is what im talking about - this guy started off saying ..

"It is a censored society. People don't have the freedoms others do or take for granted. and that's just for starters...."

making China sound kinda ominous and bad - but then under scrutiny it turns out he doesnt actually know much and is just repeating what he hears in his enviroment.

thats the enviroment im getting at - all the media and news seem to be making out that Chian is a truly oppressive or horrific regime, they may be somewhat true - im just tryin to dig a bit further instead of just going along with something that doesnt make sense to me.

[NanteNa]

This interests you.. but not enough to just google it or do some research yourself? If you don't bother to look into it, it doesn't seem that you're genuinely interested to me.

Anyway.. I see one major problem.. China still has the strict 1-child policy. There was a documentary shown where I'm at, showing a poor working-class family that got two kids. They were not allowed to get health insurance, education, public support in ANY way for this kid, because they already had one. This family was completely 'banned' from public services, because they had two kids instead of one.

The censorship of youtube may not seem like a big thing, but there are BILLIONS of videos on youtube. Loads and loads of different types of videos. People are not just censored from nasty stuff - but also from videos by completely regular people overseas. In some areas even FACEBOOK and xanga are blocked sites. The fact that they cannot use something as regular and innocent (to me at least) as Twitter is just ridiculous.

They aim to be a dominating power in this world.. but to me the government seems like a paranoid bunch of kids who're afraid to let anything westernized into their country.

[pumpum]

Originally Posted by NanteNa

This interests you.. but not enough to just google it or do some research yourself? If you don't bother to look into it, it doesn't seem that you're genuinely interested to me.

Anyway.. I see one major problem.. China still has the strict 1-child policy. There was a documentary shown where I'm at, showing a poor working-class family that got two kids. They were not allowed to get health insurance, education, public support in ANY way for this kid, because they already had one. This family was completely 'banned' from public services, because they had two kids instead of one.

The censorship of youtube may not seem like a big thing, but there are BILLIONS of videos on youtube. Loads and loads of different types of videos. People are not just censored from nasty stuff - but also from videos by completely regular people overseas. In some areas even FACEBOOK and xanga are blocked sites. The fact that they cannot use something as regular and innocent (to me at least) as Twitter is just ridiculous.

They aim to be a dominating power in this world.. but to me the government seems like a paranoid bunch of kids who're afraid to let anything westernized into their country.

Firstly i will admit i am choosing thelazy option in satisfying my curiosity.

Secondly i dont see them doin anything wrong in what you just laid out its not necessary to human life to be able to access facebook or twitter, i mean cmon thats just shallow.

saddam hussein was opressive
stalin was oppressive
mugabe is oppressive

Can China really be on par with those people?

[MMM]

Human rights in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by pumpum

Firstly i will admit i am choosing thelazy option in satisfying my curiosity.

Secondly i dont see them doin anything wrong in what you just laid out its not necessary to human life to be able to access facebook or twitter, i mean cmon thats just shallow.

saddam hussein was opressive
stalin was oppressive
mugabe is oppressive

Can China really be on par with those people?

No, they're no on a par with them, but they're still far behind the rest of the developed world. Not being able to access Facebook seems trivial, but the fact is they ban almost all social networking sites; people aren't allowed to freely discuss. The only information you can read about the Chinese government in China is what THEY write or permit to be seen, such as pro-party websites. Criticism of the government, even a mild form such as what I'm writing now, can result in police investigation if your anonymity fails and arrest. People have lost their livelihoods, university students have been dismissed from college, or lost their liberty, simply for expressing the opinion that "our government could do better". Control over people is staggering. Prior to the Olympics several thousand internet cafes were forcibly shut down. Bars known to be youth hang outs were forcibly shut in case they took the opportunity of foreign diplomats visiting to make a public cry of dissent. You will not find comics poking fun of politicians in Chinese papers. An Artist recently received the 2010 nobel prize. Well, technically he didn't. He was awarded it, but he's sat in a Chinese prison because of his work, which criticizes the government, and he's probably going to be there for a very long time.

And it gets worse. In some areas, chemical works have been built in towns without any consideration for the people living there. The pollution makes people ill and ruins their farmland, but they can't even complain about it for fear of the retaliation they'd receive. The corruption scandals are numerous and hushed, and you have a case where the rich have opportunities to improve the lot of all with schemes and policy, but it's easier and more comfortable for them to keep the poor poor so the rich can stay really rich. Their environmental state is abysmal.

So what do you have as a U.K. citizen that Chinese people don't?

The right to access to healthcare regardless of your birth position.
The right to education.
The right to live in a non mix-use locality (i.e., it's forbidden to build a refinery in a suburb by U.K development law)
The right to a fair and democratic vote.
The right to impeach your government should they fail you.
The right to complain or demand compensation without fear of incarceration.
The right to print in accordance to the Freedom of Information act.
The right to pensions and benefits.
The right to never face torture of execution at the hands of the British state.
The right not to be detained without trial.
The right to not be discriminated against because of your ethnicity.
Fair property rights.
Fair use of eminent domain land seizure.

And most of all, that these are followed through on and legally enforced. China has a number of these on ~paper~, including freedom of speech, but little to no practical use of them, unless, perhaps, you're rich and live in a city. All fairly fundamental stuff and by no means trivial. China might be stable after a pretty gruesome civil war, and they may be gradually opening, but that doesn't mean everyone is happy, or that things shouldn't be better.

(And in before anyone says something like "prove it", well I say if OP can't be bothered to research himself, I can't be bothered to justify it with references. )

[NanteNa]

Originally Posted by pumpum

Firstly i will admit i am choosing thelazy option in satisfying my curiosity.

Secondly i dont see them doin anything wrong in what you just laid out its not necessary to human life to be able to access facebook or twitter, i mean cmon thats just shallow.

saddam hussein was opressive
stalin was oppressive
mugabe is oppressive

Can China really be on par with those people?

Yes, and your lazy option is choosing JAPAN forum. lol. Not only the lazy option - but not really the 'brightest' one either.

Facebook and Twitter is not just posting statuses and pictures. It's communicating with the outside world. As someone posted just before me, they're not disabling social sites - they're disabling free discussions. I keep in contact with MANY friends overseas through Facebook. If my country decided to ban Facebook to avoid me putting my opinion out there, with risk of not exactly sugar coating the government of my country - hell I'd be PISSED. And that's not being shallow, if you ask me. That's being paranoid of the not-so-pleasant truth coming out there..