China

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by pumpum

thats the enviroment im getting at - all the media and news seem to be making out that Chian is a truly oppressive or horrific regime, they may be somewhat true - im just tryin to dig a bit further instead of just going along with something that doesnt make sense to me.

What media are you using?

Most accounts of China I've seen seem pretty balanced as far as I can tell.

Also it's pretty straightforward. China is accused of various human rights violations.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by pumpum

Firstly i will admit i am choosing thelazy option in satisfying my curiosity.

Secondly i dont see them doin anything wrong in what you just laid out its not necessary to human life to be able to access facebook or twitter, i mean cmon thats just shallow.

saddam hussein was opressive
stalin was oppressive
mugabe is oppressive

Can China really be on par with those people?

It's not helpful to look at things like this because there are so many ways to measure "evil" so to speak.

In some ways China is worse than the above. In others it is probably a lot better.

My philosophy is all countries suck. Some just suck worse than others.

[Ryzorian]

Pumpum; China's government does what is right for China's government. The same as all governments. They are just far more agressive about it than some western ones.

The Chinese live under King John, not King Richard. There is no Robin Hood, no Merry men and the Sheriff has a large number of deputies.

[evanny]

ehhh. if china had only gotten on the industrial revolution wagon like the whole Europe then things might stayed the same for them..i mean up until 18th century they were the most advanced, with highest quality of life and without a care in the world. just admired by the rest of the world.
anyway - i do not feel any kind of ill against china. and im not sure that after 3000 years of emperors they should have a revolution and become democracy, who knows what kind of hell might break loose.

P.S i think 1 child policy is great thing. in case if you really want 2 then just pay extra taxes. i am hoping that India and some African countries will do the same. by 2050 there will be 12 billion people at this rate. now it's 6.8. so...have only 1 child or simply do what Europe does - stop reproducing and slowly start to die out

[GoNative]

The Chinese government may well have allowed a certain amount capitalism into their economy which has benefited a minority of the population greatly but they are still a very strict communist regime. Such regimes survive on keeping the people ignorant which is why all media is state controlled and why the government limits access to the internet and any independent forms of expression. They are brutal in their treatment of those who do not toe the party line or voice any opposition to the government. Anything that can have sway over the population besides the government, like religions, have been brutally repressed over the decades. Not the sort of regime I would like to live under that's for sure.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GoNative

The Chinese government may well have allowed a certain amount capitalism into their economy which has benefited a minority of the population greatly but they are still a very strict communist regime. Such regimes survive on keeping the people ignorant which is why all media is state controlled and why the government limits access to the internet and any independent forms of expression. They are brutal in their treatment of those who do not toe the party line or voice any opposition to the government. Anything that can have sway over the population besides the government, like religions, have been brutally repressed over the decades. Not the sort of regime I would like to live under that's for sure.

At the risk of sounding pedantic.

It's a communist one in name only as are most so-called communist regimes.

I agree with the rest of your post.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

At the risk of sounding pedantic.

It's a communist one in name only as are most so-called communist regimes.
.

what exactly do you mean by that remark?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

what exactly do you mean by that remark?

If I remember correctly...

Communism is said (by true communists) to be the next stage in human society.

Marx wrote that just as power from the aristocrats and lords had been siezed by the middle class during the enlightenment which created the middle class, that the working class would rise and take power from the middle class which would in turn eliminate class and class struggle altogether.

He envisioned this revolution to take place in countries with a strong middle class like Britain. Instead these revolutions took place in countries which had a weak middle class but a ruling aristocracy and a numerous working class.

Countries like Russia and China. So instead of a workers revolution via the mechanisms created by the middle class (party politics etc) as well as the values established by them as he had been envisioned. Instead what happened was simply a transfer of power between elites using Communism as their excuse.

That is why countries such as the USSR and China are not really communist countries. They're authoritarian regimes that came to power on the back of communism.

[morgans]

as i know there are a lot hackers in china, that make google went away from china this prove that china's hacker is really wonderful

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

If I remember correctly...

Communism is said (by true communists) to be the next stage in human society.

Marx wrote that just as power from the aristocrats and lords had been siezed by the middle class during the enlightenment which created the middle class, that the working class would rise and take power from the middle class which would in turn eliminate class and class struggle altogether.

He envisioned this revolution to take place in countries with a strong middle class like Britain. Instead these revolutions took place in countries which had a weak middle class but a ruling aristocracy and a numerous working class.

Countries like Russia and China. So instead of a workers revolution via the mechanisms created by the middle class (party politics etc) as well as the values established by them as he had been envisioned. Instead what happened was simply a transfer of power between elites using Communism as their excuse.

That is why countries such as the USSR and China are not really communist countries. They're authoritarian regimes that came to power on the back of communism.

Mm I see exactly what you Mean Ronin. Thanks.