generalising about nationality

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Stats are allways problamatic anyway. Like Mark Twain said, " There are two kinds of Liars, poloticians and stataticians. The two generally work together too.

politicians----------statisticians





my husband alwas quotes---------



"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Other coiners have therefore been proposed. The most plausible, given current evidence, is Englishman Sir Charles Wentworth Dilke (1843–1911).[citation needed]

basically don't believe a word about statistics and all the lies they use to try to influence everyone

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

here in uk i have never voted for the winning party. i voted for the green party.

other brits here who will know the outcome of our present coalition govt, i personallly think the two men cameron/conservative/ and clegg liberal--are like school boys out to play with their toys.

we have our hooligans who i would wish to avoid at all costs.


sometimes they give a really bad image of brits---so people dislike the brits but majority of people are law abiding but with our latest changes i believe there will be many protests against the massive cuts in our country.

I'll pre-empt this by saying this isn't aimed at you in specific, but this current British mentality in general . . . at the risk of off-topic'ing into a political rant, that is.

Anyway this current criticism against our government really annoys me. Everyone I know denies voting for conservative/liberal, but the fact is that someone voted for them else we would still have the old government. I think these people who protest against the cuts are very short-sighted and a product of this 'now, now, now' mentality that Western society has, where we have to have what we want when we want it. If we don't make cuts then how will we get back the money that the previous government lost us? If we don't have cuts how will we get out of bankrupcy and avoid situations like in Ireland or Greece? I just wish there was a protest against these protesters, that I would gladly join!

I do agree with you about the hooligan/chav aspect though, and the bad image of Brits due to that . . . then again I think they're just a product of society too, and so it's probably safe to make a generalisation about Brits based on their behaviour, because - frankly - when you walk out and about they are the majority, whether we like it or not.

[termogard]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

sorry i have a broken arm and cannot do capital letters easily

Oh, no problem! Take care and my sincere wish your arm to recover ASAP!

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

those who give a bad image for their country by getting drunk and out of control. especially when they travel abroad in groups and behave really badly.

anyone who gives a bad impression of the british people.

there is too much binge drinking where they get bladdered-- often ending up needing hospital treatment if they hurt themselves, when we travel abroad we should behave in a decent manner not make others detest the rest of decent behaving brits. i feel sorry for our police and hospitals that have to deal with drink or drug related problems.


i would believe that most brits are decent. football hooliganism is one example of bad behaviour.

Okay, I understood. But as for particularly football hooligans they aren't belong to UK only. I recall news reports about football hooligans from other european countries.
Interesting, there is a special crime in a Soviet-Russian criminal Law called "hooliganism". Seems, this is borrowed word directly from English language.
The crime could be depicted as "actions include violence and / or rude behaviour and demostrate negative attitude to society in general"

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by RobinMask

I'll pre-empt this by saying this isn't aimed at you in specific, but this current British mentality in general . . . at the risk of off-topic'ing into a political rant, that is.

Anyway this current criticism against our government really annoys me. Everyone I know denies voting for conservative/liberal, but the fact is that someone voted for them else we would still have the old government. I think these people who protest against the cuts are very short-sighted and a product of this 'now, now, now' mentality that Western society has, where we have to have what we want when we want it. If we don't make cuts then how will we get back the money that the previous government lost us? If we don't have cuts how will we get out of bankrupcy and avoid situations like in Ireland or Greece? I just wish there was a protest against these protesters, that I would gladly join!

I do agree with you about the hooligan/chav aspect though, and the bad image of Brits due to that . . . then again I think they're just a product of society too, and so it's probably safe to make a generalisation about Brits based on their behaviour, because - frankly - when you walk out and about they are the majority, whether we like it or not.

ah robin---we shall see what we shall see.

i have lived through the war robin. i think our current representatives who have plenty of money in their own rights,

cutting libraries life blood to so many= closing swimming baths-- restricting aid to disabled etc. oh yes very good,

we have those who cheat the benefit system-- they need to be routed.


why should tax payers suffer for those,

however i do not wish to fight with you. we now have so many losing their jobs.
lets see who survives all this.

i do not like clegg or cameron playing with their puppets, they are okay jack.

maybe the bankers and transferring most of our business abroad has a huge impact goldman sachs also has much to answer for getting our banks to take on loans that they knew would come to disaster. this country has lost so many industries to overseas companies


less help for many who fought for this country,


i worked and paid my taxes. what real future is there for our country to recover now. so called big society--- let the countrymen and women take responsibility rather than the so called government,

clegg is an out and out liar reneging on former promises.


they don't care how many they kick out of work. i believe them to be power crazy and mad.

however i do not want to fight but they make me so angry.


would you have been happy if you had not access to libraries?

our nhs is in dire danger-- that also gets abused by many. our schools are expected to cope with thousands of non english speaking immigrants


i do not like any that abuse our nhs--- we are so lucky but this is in grave danger also.

many elderly are doomed to be stranded in their own homes because of cuts, cannot afford care workers


ps plenty did not vote for them-- it is a coalition govt with clegg in thrall to cameron

i certainly did not vote for them. i believe we need experienced politicians.

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

ps plenty did not vote for them-- it is a coalition govt with clegg in thrall to cameron.

If I remember the results correctly Labour and Conservative got equal ammounts of votes, near enough, with Conservatve just scraping the most. Liberal got the third ammount of votes - around 17% wasn't it? All other parties probably got 1% between them. So our coalition government does represent the majority in one way or another, or at least we voted in a way that allowed them to come in, so it's only fair that we let them rule as they see fit (within reason).

we now have so many losing their jobs

Why are they losing their jobs? Due to cuts, due to bankrupcy, due to England having ended up in billions of pounds worth of debt . . . it wasn't the government who's only had half-a-year in power that did that, it was the previous government. So I think that criticism should be aimed at Blair and Brown, because if we have to lay people off it's their fault we can't afford to keep them.

would you have been happy if you had not access to libraries?

our nhs is in dire danger-- that also gets abused by many. our schools are expected to cope with thousands of non english speaking immigrants

The coalition government is actually limiting immigration and enforcing stricter rules on it. If there was a problem with the old system, again it's not the current governments fault. Also yes I would be happy to see libraries and services temporalily cut if it means getting out of debt.

If you personally were broke and in debt, what would you do? You'd stop going out, you would shop less, you wouldn't buy so much, you would perhaps sell some old things . . . because if you carried on spending you'd go bankrupt and have nothing. The country is the same. We have to make sacrifices in order to work our way back up to the wealth we once had. If we want a future that's filled with libraries, services, help etc., then we need to sacrifice some things in the short term to achieve this.

Most of your other points - like Clegg reneging on promises can be pretty much explained with what I've said above. You can't give out free tuition to students if you can't afford to.

To be honest politics is worse than religion in my opinion, with religion you can stand to have some resemblance of a debate, in politics everyone ends up in a schoolyard throwing mud . . . 'You labours are too short-sighted', 'you snobby conservatives are too out of touch with the people!' So I'll stop before it reaches that level. I think we've both made points and explained them reasonably, so forgive me if I don't respond after this. If there's one thing I hate it's politics! :P

[MMM]

I don't understand the negativity towards statistics (getting slightly off topic here). Statistics, if done properly, are essentially mathematical facts. The population of a country, the number of people who vote, the percent without jobs... These are all fact, or little pieces of truth. To call statistics lies is like calling math lies.

Indeed there are ways to present the numbers to skew conclusions about what they mean, but that doesn't mean the numbers are lies.

[dogsbody70]

unfortunately politics rule our lives. its acting like the proverbial ostrich just pretending everything is hunky dory.

house prices are scandalous, i feel sorry for young people trying to survive with all the massive rents and mortgages.

cuts yet all costs rising.


most young people stay with their parents much longer than they used to need to do.

robin u do not need to reply to anything i write anyway because mostly you contradict me--i don't actually care though. you still have your life before you where mine will soon be closing.


anway it was really about impressions and generalising about nationalities.


we can be seen in certain ways-- but it is the politicianswho make decisions but the rest of the world might think that we all are in agreement with our leaders, sending men to war in places where we should not be.

cutting our cloth to suit our means i think you mean, what makes you think that we don't. my daughter works her guts out to survive yet everything goes against her, stop the greedy landlords and property developers.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't understand the negativity towards statistics (getting slightly off topic here). Statistics, if done properly, are essentially mathematical facts. The population of a country, the number of people who vote, the percent without jobs... These are all fact, or little pieces of truth. To call statistics lies is like calling math lies.

Indeed there are ways to present the numbers to skew conclusions about what they mean, but that doesn't mean the numbers are lies.

really mm. what good are statistics really. it is how the statisticians come to a result that is the point. questionaires can be twisted to come up with probable answers,

[MMM]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

really mm. what good are statistics really. it is how the statisticians come to a result that is the point. questionaires can be twisted to come up with probable answers,

What good are statistics? What an incredible question to ask. That's like saying, "what good is sunlight?". You may not notice it when it is there, but you will sure miss it when it is gone.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by RobinMask

If I remember the results correctly Labour and Conservative got equal ammounts of votes, near enough, with Conservatve just scraping the most. Liberal got the third ammount of votes - around 17% wasn't it? All other parties probably got 1% between them. So our coalition government does represent the majority in one way or another, or at least we voted in a way that allowed them to come in, so it's only fair that we let them rule as they see fit (within reason).



Why are they losing their jobs? Due to cuts, due to bankrupcy, due to England having ended up in billions of pounds worth of debt . . . it wasn't the government who's only had half-a-year in power that did that, it was the previous government. So I think that criticism should be aimed at Blair and Brown, because if we have to lay people off it's their fault we can't afford to keep them.




The coalition government is actually limiting immigration and enforcing stricter rules on it. If there was a problem with the old system, again it's not the current governments fault. Also yes I would be happy to see libraries and services temporalily cut if it means getting out of debt.

If you personally were broke and in debt, what would you do? You'd stop going out, you would shop less, you wouldn't buy so much, you would perhaps sell some old things . . . because if you carried on spending you'd go bankrupt and have nothing. The country is the same. We have to make sacrifices in order to work our way back up to the wealth we once had. If we want a future that's filled with libraries, services, help etc., then we need to sacrifice some things in the short term to achieve this.

Most of your other points - like Clegg reneging on promises can be pretty much explained with what I've said above. You can't give out free tuition to students if you can't afford to.

To be honest politics is worse than religion in my opinion, with religion you can stand to have some resemblance of a debate, in politics everyone ends up in a schoolyard throwing mud . . . 'You labours are too short-sighted', 'you snobby conservatives are too out of touch with the people!' So I'll stop before it reaches that level. I think we've both made points and explained them reasonably, so forgive me if I don't respond after this. If there's one thing I hate it's politics! :P

so robin if you had been denied access tro libraries howell would you have acquired knowledge,

you are at the close of your uni studies--maybe their libraries and access to knowledge should also be denied, how would students progress without access to books/

its like those who received free university-- as many did-- now denying access to todays students--the govt has cut the amount they give to universities so the student now has the cost---blair wanted 50 percent of students to go to university-----------why? are they more important than the rest who don't get that extra education.

anyway i will shut up now---businesses go abroad or big companies transfer from uk to overseas hence loss of thousands of jobs here.


ps re clegg reneging on his previous promise about university fees, he lied and gave false promises in order to get the vote. why should anyone trust him again?


see what goldman sachs is resposible for also