Lolita Complex

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by RealJames

To a western mind it may well seem childish as it's normally just teens that dress that way back home, but now that I see pics of back home it's like relatively most women over the age of 30 give up entirely on being fashionable.

Not such a bad thing really is it? Fashion is only something for those that care about their appearance either because of manipulations of marketing to make us feel insecure unless we look a certain way or to fit into certain social groups or project an image about oursleves through our clothing. Once you're completely comfortable with who you are and don't get worried about how others perceive you things like fashion have little meaning in your life.

As you can see I don't think much of the whole idea of fashion. I dress to be comfortable, nothing more and nothing less. And thankfully my wife is the same. Much cheaper when you're not a slave to fashions!

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Not such a bad thing really is it? Fashion is only something for those that care about their appearance either because of manipulations of marketing to make us feel insecure unless we look a certain way or to fit into certain social groups or project an image about oursleves through our clothing. Once you're completely comfortable with who you are and don't get worried about how others perceive you things like fashion have little meaning in your life.

As you can see I don't think much of the whole idea of fashion. I dress to be comfortable, nothing more and nothing less. And thankfully my wife is the same. Much cheaper when you're not a slave to fashions!

That's true and has some validity to it.
I don't pass judgment so quickly on those who dress fashionably as to assume why they do it.

But more importantly, I do believe that that the severely unfashionable western middle-aged women do in fact very much care about their appearance, regardless of why it is, media or simply comparing themselves to an image they have of their own past. If dressing fashionably allows them to alleviate some of that then that's fine by me.

What I mean is that if I see a 50 year old western woman dressing like a teenager I assume she's a media-whore who's been brainwashed and has massive insecurity issues.
But if I see a 50 year old Japanese woman dressing like her friends and also her daughter, I certainly don't assume anything about her confidence or motives, it's a cultural difference.

A few of my students are older housewives who do dress cute and fashionably, I assure you they have no lack of confidence nor are they media-whores, but they just like they way they look in those clothes. Honestly they do look better dressed that way than in sweats or loose blue jeans etc.

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by RealJames

I don't think that's it, it's just as likely for a married 30 year old to dress fashionably as a single one. Hell, even after they have children.

It's just the way it is, that Japanese woman may ask why many women stop dressing fashionably in western countries, and be just as boggled by it as you are.
Dressing fashionably, going to restaurants and cake shops, talking about your kids and husband's job etc with your small group of friends at a cafe, these traits define the typical woman in Japan, imo.

see, this what i don't get. fashionably does not mean tossing all top brands on. lack of taste (or sense of fashion) is one issue but i guess that comes from no family values (or weak ones). Also note that all that fashion drama disappears when they get pregnant and have a kid, after which they all dress up like a aged scare crow, speeding about in ther mama charinko's and long gloves not to catch any sunlight, because omg i have to stay death-like pale.

to blowing out of proportions. sure i do. I am an artist, it;s my job to magnify. otherwise it's boring and not attractive enough to challange it, right MMM besides i am European and my rather large book of complaints and bitching comes along with the passport lol.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

see, this what i don't get. fashionably does not mean tossing all top brands on. lack of taste (or sense of fashion) is one issue but i guess that comes from no family values (or weak ones). Also note that all that fashion drama disappears when they get pregnant and have a kid, after which they all dress up like a aged scare crow, speeding about in ther mama charinko's and long gloves not to catch any sunlight, because omg i have to stay death-like pale.

to blowing out of proportions. sure i do. I am an artist, it;s my job to magnify. otherwise it's boring and not attractive enough to challange it, right MMM besides i am European and my rather large book of complaints and bitching comes along with the passport lol.

Taste is subjective, and I think you're outnumbered by popular vote regarding the taste of these women.
Family values don't relate to the fashion one chooses, at least not here. The Goth/Punk cutesy 30 year old girl probably loves her family just the same as the prude. Hell she probably is prude too.

And I see heaps of hot moms and fashionable pregnant chicks, I have no idea where you are, the country-side perhaps?

I don't think many europeans would appreciate being associated with a large book of complaints and bitching lol

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Taste is subjective, and I think you're outnumbered by popular vote regarding the taste of these women.

I don't think many europeans would appreciate being associated with a large book of complaints and bitching lol

I know i am outnumbered, bad taste is prevailing.
What kind of Europeans are you hanging out with? Charisma men?

[Ghap]

Child abuse is abhorent no doubt

but if consenting adults are involved Thats there business not anyone else's.

Hell lolita, schoolgirl, police, army, nurse, cosplay and anything else you can think off.

Heres one argument thrown back

"Just because you have a point of view does not mean that point of view is valid or true".

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by Ghap

Child abuse is abhorent no doubt

"Just because you have a point of view does not mean that point of view is valid or true".

In this case the point of view is derived from my personal taste and reaction to the junk around. Since "de gustibus non est disputandum" as the Romas used to say and fact that we all base our opposing point of views on subjective grounds I reckon that the whole discussion is rather academic.

I don't really give a monkey's toss if anyone agrees or not. This is a forum for sharing opinions about Japan. My opinion regarding chicks and their fashion is what it is and when I change it I will send you a 書留. Aite?

[Ghap]

Well said!

at the end of the day its all about "taste".

[Demitrichan]

To Me a lolita complex is liking young LOOKING girls I know at least 5 people that look twelve but are 18 with a photo I.d. to prove it.
They actually frequently call themselves Loli

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by RealJames

But more importantly, I do believe that that the severely unfashionable western middle-aged women do in fact very much care about their appearance, regardless of why it is, media or simply comparing themselves to an image they have of their own past. If dressing fashionably allows them to alleviate some of that then that's fine by me.

What I mean is that if I see a 50 year old western woman dressing like a teenager I assume she's a media-whore who's been brainwashed and has massive insecurity issues.
But if I see a 50 year old Japanese woman dressing like her friends and also her daughter, I certainly don't assume anything about her confidence or motives, it's a cultural difference.

A few of my students are older housewives who do dress cute and fashionably, I assure you they have no lack of confidence nor are they media-whores, but they just like they way they look in those clothes. Honestly they do look better dressed that way than in sweats or loose blue jeans etc.

As one of those ~50 year old western women referred to, there is a factor that may impact us more than our Japanese counterparts.
Western women, especially in the U.S., tend to grow in all proportions considerably more than Asian women between their teens and later years. And western clothing manufacturers become worse and worse (almost daily) at catering to anyone over the age of about 16 these days. If you look at what is sold in even the more trendy department stores for women of my age, we have little or no choice but to wear downdy, frumpy, ill-fitting things that are humiliating to anyone with a sense of fashion. Unless you are extremely rich and can afford a private tailor, you eventually tire of the fight and wear the best you can abide being seen in. And if you are also over a size 12, you might as well just forget looking attractive in 90% of what is in the stores. The buyers seem to think we should all wear cheap looking t-shirts, baggy slacks, sweat suits. Half of what is on the racks do not even meet my companies definition as Business Casual.

The other factor is that after a certain age, one's budget for high fashion clothing tends to be re-apportioned for more substantial things like home furnishings, cars, medical insurance/expenses, etc. Being the fashion plate to seem attractive to others is less important than other needs of a family and home.