Standards and Society

[MMM]

Since when does following fashion trends make one weak, have low self-esteem, have a poor family life, etc? I have never read anything so odd.

It is natural to follow trends and social norms. I am from the Pacific NW, and here things tend to be fairly relaxed, so when I have visited places like Washington DC I was surprised to see every man in a suit and tie... almost without fail. In Oregon our governor wears blue jeans to work.

So when I am in DC I wear a suit and tie, as it is what is expected. This is following the social norm. In Oregon I never use an umbrella... it is the first sign of a tourist... but in Japan I do. It has nothing to do with familial relationships or child abuse, it is simply about fitting in.

NOTE: Moved from another thread

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by MMM

Since when does following fashion trends make one weak, have low self-esteem, have a poor family life, etc? I have never read anything so odd.

It is natural to follow trends and social norms. I am from the Pacific NW, and here things tend to be fairly relaxed, so when I have visited places like Washington DC I was surprised to see every man in a suit and tie... almost without fail. In Oregon our governor wears blue jeans to work.

So when I am in DC I wear a suit and tie, as it is what is expected. This is following the social norm. In Oregon I never use an umbrella... it is the first sign of a tourist... but in Japan I do. It has nothing to do with familial relationships or child abuse, it is simply about fitting in.

so you are like a flag. the wind changes and off you go. thats why you ll never understand me. I dont follow trends only because others do. I follow what I believe is right for me, the hell with others. You fit in Japan well man, very well haha. What is odd for me is life of a sheep that enjoys the herd life.

[ryuurui]

OK, my sarcasm has won.

Are you consulting the entire village to make sure that your answer will fit the commonly respected standars?

I could not help it.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

so you are like a flag. the wind changes and off you go. thats why you ll never understand me. I dont follow trends only because others do. I follow what I believe is right for me, the hell with others. You fit in Japan well man, very well haha. What is odd for me is life of a sheep that enjoys the herd life.

I am not sure why you are making this personal.

If a sheep enjoys his life, what is wrong with that?

Originally Posted by ryuurui

OK, my sarcasm has won.

Are you consulting the entire village to make sure that your answer will fit the commonly respected standars?

I could not help it.

What? Because I didn't rush to respond to you like a lapdog? I stepped out to run some errands.

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am not sure why you are making this personal.

If a sheep enjoys his life, what is wrong with that?



What? Because I didn't rush to respond to you like a lapdog? I stepped out to run some errands.

To the response, no lol I was just having a laugh.

Look man, I am happy that you are enjoying your life style, because this is what life is about. However, I thought we had a discussion so I told you what I think about it. It is not personal, as you said, you represent the majority's way of thinking/app[reciating the world and all. So I was addressing a group, right.

For me, understand this, I hate standars, I hate the crowd's psychology, I hate swimming in a skull. It is not only boring (for me) but also not helping in seeking one's deeper layers. If you want to do something spectacular you have to break through the walls. But maybe it lays in my scoprio nature.

As to the Japanese girls, I am not attracted to their fashion or way of being. I like women that have raw passion and fury in their minds. That like to stand up and fight (not phisically) and not go weak in the 区役所 because a robotic clerk said he cant do it (manul anyone?). If I find a Japanese woman like this, I will ask her to spread the virus.

It doesn't also mean that I alsways go against the stream. I don't waste time of meaningless battles, but seriously, anything standard is driving me nuts. Take the guys in my company. I asked one how many hours a week does he see his family. He said 2. So I aksked "why are you working so long, they don';t even pay you the overtime". I do it because eveyone else does. I mean wtf?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

For me, understand this, I hate standars, I hate the crowd's psychology, I hate swimming in a skull. It is not only boring (for me) but also not helping in seeking one's deeper layers. If you want to do something spectacular you have to break through the walls. But maybe it lays in my scoprio nature.

We are getting a little philosophical, but without standards there is chaos. Saying I hate standards is like saying I hate the laws of physics. I think your target is something more specific.
Societies must have standards and "crowd psychology" in order to function. Otherwise, again, chaos.
Funny, I am a Scorpio, too.

Originally Posted by ryuurui

As to the Japanese girls, I am not attracted to their fashion or way of being. I like women that have raw passion and fury in their minds. That like to stand up and fight (not phisically) and not go weak in the 区役所 because a robotic clerk said he cant do it (manul anyone?). If I find a Japanese woman like this, I will ask her to spread the virus.

One thing I have always liked about Japanese fashion is the variety you can see.

I can't believe you haven't found a Japanese woman with raw passion. It may not mean she runs through the streets pulling her hair out, but something more subtle. That raw passion may be just under your nose, but you are not seeing it. I have met and know some very strong willed and passion-filled Japanese women who do break down the walls around them.

Originally Posted by ryuurui

It doesn't also mean that I alsways go against the stream. I don't waste time of meaningless battles, but seriously, anything standard is driving me nuts. Take the guys in my company. I asked one how many hours a week does he see his family. He said 2. So I aksked "why are you working so long, they don';t even pay you the overtime". I do it because eveyone else does. I mean wtf?

He does so because he wants to keep his job. It is what is expected of him. This is a standard that has done much for Japanese industry, but not much for children that like to see their fathers.

[ryuurui]

Haha that would explain why we are both hard headed and defend the positions.

I tell you, when I came over here in 2001 I was wondering why everyone is celebrating halloween on September. Trying a lot of new things is good, but some creations are really out of control. I like simplicity and classic things, modern is good but there needs to be balance. Similarly in calligraphy, where the beauty of this art is not hidden in lines but the white space around, thus the void. Less is more. In Japan lack of guidance comes from weak family backbone and thats why the mentality/trends went mustang. It may be good for progress (lots of fashin creators come here to see what's new on the menu) but for me it causes a headache. Situation is a bit chaotic here.

I attack the ant colony like mentality. I freaking hate it. I ve been to many countries and Japan is the most suitable for me. I just bloody hope that things will get, how shall i put it ina civilized way, less uptight here in the future.

Maybe I have never looked for one. I am attracted more to southern types (though my wife has mixed Chinese blood in). I like outgoing and open people. If someone doesnt like me I want him or her to get it out of the system. We either sort it or not, and then move on.

I knew few Japanese women that revealed amazing passion when I digged deeper to uncovered layers, but it seems to me that for some reason (and I am afraid it is the need for uniformity) they hide it under irritating mask of あ,そうなんですか？'s small talk plastic face 10 inch thick safe door. Having said that, European girls can drive you crazy with other stuff. They have mastered an art of making a problem out of nothing. I call it a psychotic perpetuum mobile. As to Japan, I am just pointing here what strikes me the most.

Nah man, he does it becauase he has no balls to fight, no guts to stand up and bitch slap the oppressor. He needs others so he can follow. We have started a workers union as the illegal shit going in my place just got too ridiculous. Hammer time.

I rememeber I said to another guy "you are working 18h a day, are you crazy?", he said, "No, I am Japanese". This shows how some of them are programmed. It scares me man.

I believe that where the personality ends one stops to be human. This is what I am referring to saying that one should seek his own way. For me it is following the trends. So to make it more precise, I use an ubrella when it rains and I dont care if someone thinks I am a tourist. So what if he does, lol.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

Nah man, he does it becauase he has no balls to fight, no guts to stand up and bitch slap the oppressor. He needs others so he can follow. We have started a workers union as the illegal shit going in my place just got too ridiculous. Hammer time.

I rememeber I said to another guy "you are working 18h a day, are you crazy?", he said, "No, I am Japanese". This shows how some of them are programmed. It scares me man.

I believe that where the personality ends one stops to be human. This is what I am referring to saying that one should seek his own way. For me it is following the trends. So to make it more precise, I use an ubrella when it rains and I dont care if someone thinks I am a tourist. So what if he does, lol.

We are saying the same thing. The reason he doesn't punch his boss in the face is because he wants to keep his job. What would his wife say when he goes home and says "I finally stood up to the man!"? She'll then punch him in the face.

And I don't use an umbrella in Oregon not because I don't want to look like a tourist. I don't use one because I don't need to.

[ryuurui]

Oh, ok, you made it sound as you don't carry it because people would think you are a tourist.

"Bitch slap" was a metaphor for standing up and saying "that's it". I am not encouraging beating people up. It would be too easy and rather unrewarding. I mean you 've got to draw a line at some point. What kind of life he has with his family if he sees his 4 kids only 2 hours a week! A week, man! Drying out plants on a desert enjoy themselves more than him.

Many Japanese people keep all that tension built up behinds the gates and BOOM! suicide. For me it's a weakness. I say f. the rules if they make your life miserable. This is why I hope that new generation will open their eyes. This is alwa why I would be very careful with fallowing sicial rules and trends. Some are good and make life of a large group more organised, while another annihilate whats human in humans.

[ryuurui]

There is a lot of truth there. I do not mean to rabel for the sake of arguing, but when something does not go along with yourself. If you canot change the status quo, change the environment.

I have 21 years of shool/univ education behind me in three different countries. Did I like all of it? Not 100$ at the time I was doing it, but I can see it is paying off now. On the other hand, confomring is good and it is true that one needs to pick his battles ceverly, but sometimes you need to smack and watch it bleed. It is very unlikely someone else will come and do it for you.

Laslty, there is a lot of difference between being polite and and double faced. Politics can bring you high up in the ladder, but they also may cause a painful fall, after which all will turn their backs away. Who will you have left then? Yourself, but with low self respect. Slippery ground there.