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and again -
03-23-2011, 10:37 PM
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03-23-2011, 10:52 PM
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common sense -
03-24-2011, 02:13 AM
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When you bring at this forum some valid sources concerning to current dangerous levels of radiation in Europe, we'll talk about. By the way, there are rumours that 'blues brothers' are very popular among housewives......  |
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03-24-2011, 03:58 AM
bluejeanslady:
you have been saying all kinds of stuff, which if it were true would be serious and your claims would be right, but seriously you need to consider that your sources are way off track. You've given no actual facts, no sources, no references, nothing real. I'm not attacking you, but your arguments, they are all shallow and don't stand for a second against the mildest investigation. It's exactly this kind of misinformation that's destroying all facets of the world this day. PS: if what you're sayign is true about fukushima, then chernobyl would have eradicated humanity off the face of the earth, if not at least europe |
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03-24-2011, 06:06 AM
Many of you might be somewhat taken aback by the ravings of bluejeanslady but I can assure you this sort of thinking is not unusual. I've spent years debating climate change with people and the same sort of mindset is commonly found in such discussions. Basically they are conspiracy theorists who not only distrust mainstream science but generally think scientists are all part of some big conspiracy to take over the world. And of course they believe everything they are told by governments are lies. Anyway for those that are not used to this sort of person here's a good list of their charateristics. You'll see many commonalities with bluejeanslady.
10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists 1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc. 2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length. 3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make. 4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth. 5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account. 6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same. 7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot. 8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist. 9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely. 10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question. A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore. |
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03-24-2011, 07:33 AM
i really donnot want to discuss about things which are clear ... everybody must decide by himself what to do ... its really funny to see the japanese slowly reaction and its surreal for us like they live in a tamagotchi & hello kitty world ... the people trust the complete nonsense they were told since 12 days now and wait and see
 ... we would at once run and see later  .... maybe they donnot have the information we have here about the situation ... up to today they have no result and every specialist says that there is nothing to save .. over this the salt of the sea water make a cooling over water in near future unimpossible = the next problem ... what for specialists are working there ? i think they try to save but are complete helpless ...  my idea was to put a map of japan in the internet and every private people can open their measure result of radiation in air there online and everybody can see this .. i think that is a good idea and the officials can not lie futhermore about radiation ... i am not able to do this, maybe s.o. else can make s.th. like this .. this would be a good information source for people ... Quote:
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03-24-2011, 09:43 AM
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03-24-2011, 12:04 PM
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The situation is under control, they are now doing more measurements, and so far the risk is very low. It is not fair to say that they "Don't have the information you have", because they definitely have the information, first hand too. I don't think its in their government's interest to just let its citizen expose to severe dose of radiation, they are the one country that knows the impact of a nuclear disaster (Nagasaki, Hiroshima), they know the consequences and the effect And what makes you say that pumping seawater will cause future cooling issue? Every single specialist and expert suggest that the action of pumping sea water may not work, but now that it worked nobody is saying anything about its impact to future cooling. Unless you know something beyond all the experts in North America or Asia (I said ASIA, not just JAPAN, because there are more than Japanese expert looking at this). And what will your suggestion for the map do? It only shows you data of how much radiation is given around a certain area... TODAY, what are you going to compare it to? I think the first thing that you yourself and people with similar mentalities will first need to understand the impact of the different level of radiation. We are expose to different type of radiation daily. I am not sure why its surreal to you (btw its Tamagochi...), maybe you are just really proud of yourself and your country, so automatically thinks that you all know more and better than Japan. To me, THATS surreal... |
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03-24-2011, 02:14 PM
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03-24-2011, 02:27 PM
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Neither do we, so why do you keep typing?  Only an open mind and open heart can be filled with life. ********************* Find your voice; silence will not protect you.
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