Give money to Haiti, not Japan.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are very good at pushing people away from agreeing with you. I have seen it happen on this thread alone. How many times have you felt the need to say your argument is purely rational.

I understand the rationality of helping Haiti. No one would disagree. However, Haiti doesn't need financial assistance. It needs ORGANIZED and TRUSTWORTHY financial assistance. With the money the world has put into Haiti, they should be living large. They aren't. You have the problem of diminishing returns. Is it better to put money in a safe, or a furnace. Maybe the furnace needs it more, but what is the furnace going to do with it?

Regardless of Haiti's needs, your argument that Japan "doesn't need the money" falls flat, as ANY country that experiences a disaster requires money to get rescue and relief efforts on the move. You still don't seem able to accept that much of that money doesn't go into the pockets of people without homes, but goes into buying food, water, supplies, airplane fuel, etc. to get relief workers from all over the world into the disaster zone. I am repeating arguments that you don't seem to want to respond to, so I am stopping here.

I'm glad you're stopping because I will say it again. Ironic that you are accusing me of repeating myself because you just seem to be rewording the exact same point over and over again.

I am not against giving Japan the things it NEEDS. But money, in particular MY money, isn't one of them.

Furthermore Haiti was just an example of a country that needs MONEY more than Japan (In that it doesn't have the money to fund any sort of relief).

I've said this before too.

Forget Haiti if you want.. choose a country that is poor that is facing a Humanitarian crisis and substitute it for that.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

Not really. Haiti needs money LESS than Japan because the % of that money being used to help people in need is reduced. Send the money to Japan and the relief workers to Haiti makes more sense. Not the other way around.

As I've already said...

Forget Haiti then.. It was only an example of a poor country that needed money.

My point is that Japan doesn't need money.

Oh.. and Haiti needs both relief workers AND money. It's not a one or the other type thing.

But you would expect the world's third largest economy to at least fund it's own relief effort (which I'm sure they're doing)

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Haiti does not need financial assistance. Haiti is a tropical country with a year- round growing season, and it is populated by people who ave the physical ability to grow and build if they set their minds to it. Haiti could be as much a tropical paradise as other Caribean islands, a destination for tourists and nature lovers.

Instead, Haiti's fantastic level of corruption has made the island a wasteland. The people are largely illiterate, there is no industry, nearly no police, no public works worthy of the name, and running a business is next to impossible as gangs or corrupt officials steal most of what you make, and if there is anything left over after they take their cut, you are likely to be murdered in the street for what's left.

Haitian tradition say that the leaders of the rebellion that killed the slave owners and gave Haiti to the slaves made a deal with Satan to insure their victory. And with Satan being what he is, he gave them their victory, but at the cost of Haiti always being a living hell.

LOL.. It's Satan's fault.

Anyway.. see above.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I'm glad you're stopping because I will say it again. Ironic that you are accusing me of repeating myself because you just seem to be rewording the exact same point over and over again.

I am not against giving Japan the things it NEEDS. But money, in particular MY money, isn't one of them.

Furthermore Haiti was just an example of a country that needs MONEY more than Japan (In that it doesn't have the money to fund any sort of relief).

I've said this before too.

Forget Haiti if you want.. choose a country that is poor that is facing a Humanitarian crisis and substitute it for that.

You are right, Japan doesn't need your money. The amount of caveats attached put your contribution in the red.

I don't need to substitute any other country. That's your job. I am going back to working on Japan.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

lol Sangetsu... You want to get into a dick measuring contest over how much we've given?

You win...

I gave to the Red Cross when Haiti hit (can't remember how much).

I'm also a regular donater to UNICEF.

What's your point though?

My point was obvious enough, wasn't it?

BTW, UNICEF's overhead costs amount to about 60% of donations received, meaning that most of your donations are going to pay bureaucracy rather than help people. UNICEF doctors in Africa and Haiti receive almost no pay, but UNICEF's directors and contractors are living quite well...

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are right, Japan doesn't need your money. The amount of caveats attached put your contribution in the red.

I don't need to substitute any other country. That's your job. I am going back to working on Japan.

lol.. sore loser.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

BTW, UNICEF's overhead costs amount to about 60% of donations received, meaning that most of your donations are going to pay bureaucracy rather than help people. UNICEF doctors in Africa and Haiti receive almost no pay, but UNICEF's directors and contractors are living quite well...

I believe the Red Cross is 9% and MercyCorps is 12%.

Which reminds me, for anyone in Portland, OR, there will be a candlelight vigil in Pioneer Square tomorrow from 6 to 8 pm. Donations accepted will go to MercyCorps to help those in need in Japan. Hope to see you there.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

lol.. sore loser.

Hardly sore or losing, unlike our friends in Japan. That's why I am doing what I can from here.

Maybe this is a pissing contest to you, but to me it is something more important.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

My point was obvious enough, wasn't it?

BTW, UNICEF's overhead costs amount to about 60% of donations received, meaning that most of your donations are going to pay bureaucracy rather than help people. UNICEF doctors in Africa and Haiti receive almost no pay, but UNICEF's directors and contractors are living quite well...

Your point was.. "My charity dick is bigger than your charity dick". It's true. I don't dispute that.

Regarding UNICEF.. If that's the case then that sucks.

But it has nothing to do with the point I'm making in this thread.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

Hardly sore or losing, unlike our friends in Japan. That's why I am doing what I can from here.

Maybe this is a pissing contest to you, but to me it is something more important.

You just can't handle the fact that you haven't been able to rationally counter my point and are getting all snarky about it.

Help Japan definitely. I would encourage people to do this. Not by giving money but by giving Japan the things it needs.

Heck... give money to Japan if you want. It's misplaced charity in my opinion but I will never say the feeling which motivates people to give is bad.

You just want to make it out like I'm like that because you can't handle what I'm saying.

Maybe a part of you agrees with me and feels guilty... or maybe you just don't like me.

Whatever.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

You just can't handle the fact that you haven't been able to rationally counter my point and are getting all snarky about it.

Help Japan definitely. I would encourage people to do this. Not by giving money but by giving Japan the things it needs.

Heck... give money to Japan if you want. It's misplaced charity in my opinion but I will never say the feeling which motivates people to give is bad.

You just want to make it out like I'm like that because you can't handle what I'm saying.

Maybe a part of you agrees with me and feels guilty... or maybe you just don't like me.

Whatever.

Wrong on all counts, but I don't feel any need to waste any more time on this any longer.