UN-NATO attack on Libya

[Serbiangirl]

so focus
why u think it would be different if hitler was president of US?
german or american or whatever...if something is going wrong people in the world will raise a voice
just like now
i don't think american people are bad...at least not all of them...what bothers me is the silence, where are they? students? all of them silente...that mean they agree with all decisions goverment make
or they afraid to talk?
but, u have democracy..so that can't be a case

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Serbiangirl

what bothers me is the silence, where are they? students? all of them silente...that mean they agree with all decisions goverment make
or they afraid to talk?
but, u have democracy..so that can't be a case

What makes you so sure they are silent? And I think your conclusions are made prematurely. If I am not protesting in the streets that means I agree with all the decisions the government makes?

Do you agree with all the decisions your government makes? Do you protest in the streets with every decision you do not like?

[Ryzorian]

There are some who oppose what the government does, and they do protest. There are also those who agree with the government and they don't protest or they counter protest. But to be honest Serbiangirl, most Americans don't really care about what happens in the rest of the world. They would be hard pressed to even find Lybia on a world map...Hell, many wouldn't be able to find Africa..the Continant that Lybia is in.

Serbiangirl; The thing about Hitler is this, Germany was a powerful country and Hitler took over large areas of Europe and killed many millions of innocent people. Useing German's pride and resentment from ww1, he was able to carve out a sizeable empire, and this with a country mostly land locked and surrounded by enemies. The USA would have given him 5 times the population with far more natural resources and two oceans seperateing him from everyone else.

Look at it like this, with Germany, Hitler had one country to work with. In the US he would have had 50 countries to work with. Basically each State is like a nation within a nation. So he would have had far more playing pieces on the field when ww2 started, with a much larger capacity to replace pieces that were lost. Plus he would have had 7,000 to 10,000 miles of ocean between him and all his enemies. Those oceans are formidable barriers in themselves.

[MMM]

Many would be hard-pressed to spell Libya correctly.

[Ryzorian]

Heh, I take my clues from our news, they spell Gaddafi 3 different ways too.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Gonative; The US military didn't loose a battle in Vietnam, the American people forced the government to withdraw because they thought it was wrong to be over there. The irony is that now Vietnam wants us back because we spend money.

So?

War isn't a sport. America lost because the Vietnamese outsmarted the Americans via better understanding of war. The Vietnamese knew they couldn't outfight the Americans so they adopted a strategy to outlast them.

lol... losing a war isn't like losing a football game.

And while it's ironic that Vietnam is opening itself up to the West for tourism in a sense. It's actually just how it is. I mean what should they do? Close up and be like North Korea?

Serbiangirl; As high as our Debt may be we can pay it off easily enough, if we just focused. Too many corrupt politicians. The army is the best trained and equipt, I'm ex army and I believed full bore in what I was doing and why, no problem, no regrets.

lol... way to not know what you're talking about.

The US debt is so large that even cutting ALL defence spending will not make up the deficit.

Our troops are volunteers, they do what they do because they WANT to. The point I was makeing about Location is this, it wouldn't matter what nation was the US. It could be the islamic republic of serbia for all that...the fact that it is a continant containing 25%+ of the worlds resources with two oceans seperateing it from everyone else is what would dicatate much of it's power base.

Where did you get this statistic? 25% of the world's resources? I've never heard this before in all my studies and regarding the mainstream media. Frankly I just don't buy it unless you can give me some sort of credible source.

EDIT- I googled it.. The US CONSUMES 25% of the world's resources. It doesn't HAVE 25% of the world's resources lol.

[Serbiangirl]

MMM, no i don't agree with my goverment at all, and whenever i have chance i tell clear and loud. Of course u don't need to be on a street to protest, plenty places can be used for that. Americans are nowhere to be seen considering number of population, few here and there is almost nothing. If i tell them about deleted uranium USA army use when bombing, they spit on me and call me names. the fact is, USA DO use deleted uranium. From my point of view USA interventions is not needed all the time, behind magic word "democracy" is always something else hiden....78 days of bombing Serbia, protecting Albanians, giving Kosovo to them, and all in a name of democracy?
They should let US fix the problems with Albanians....what were they doing there? and what are they doing now in Kosovo? protecting 95% shiptars (albanians) from 5% serbs? :--)
If Serbian goverment decide to join EU and NATO(which they can't wait to do)
Germany has the problem where to store nuclear rubbish solved. I am not saying they didn't take care of that already (Croatia is there)but why not Serbia as well?
Serbian people don't want that to happen, so we will see. In the meantime we won't be quiet...few hundreds people screaming all the time must make them listen

[Kozyra]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I guess all you're saying is that the USA is not the force for good that it claims to be.

Yeah right , that's what I mean, this is what concerns me.

[Ryzorian]

Yes Ronin, I will agree that the US isn't exactly the force for good it would like to think it is. Too often it get's bogged down in it's own retoric. Often we should just not get inolved.

The problem is that the world bitches when we do nothing and bitches when we do anything. So we are kinda in a catch 22. Much of the world's problems are caused by "rats in the cellar". I agree that getting rid of the Rats is a good thing for all concerned, but getting the USA to get rid of them is like sending a rhino into a house, nothing good will come of it.

America's natural resources are huge, I took geology in colloge as part of an enviromental major. South Dakato just found what is possibly the third largest oil field in the world. All they did was cap it. We also have enough oil shale in colorado to last the US 300 years at our current consumtion rate...by itself.

Frankly, I have no idea what the head honchos are trying to do. They certainly don't do what I would be doing, wich is harnessing our own resources and leaveing the rest of the world alone. Unless they are utilizeing the worlds resources FIRST..then plan to go to ours as a reserve? AS to the debt load not being a problem, it's based on GDP. Our GDP is 15trillion and our debt is about 15 trillion. Basically it would be like if you made 20,000 a year and were paying on a 20,000 debt..wich is what most home owners do every year.

I will also admit that Vietnam was smart in it's basic understanding of the US. They just had to survive long enough for the giant monster to grow bored and walk away. However, unlike most nations, where "looseing" a war tends to be catastrophic, the US isn't bothered much. Vietnam remembers the US and the devestation it unleashed, most people in the US barely remember Vietnam, at best it's just a backdrop for a Rambo movie.

Serbiangirl; The USA uses depleted uranium rounds in tank shells, 25 mill rounds, 35 mill rounds..possibly even certain sniper rounds. Yes, that's correct, your not wrong in that. The M1A1 Tank also has depleted uranium armor. DU rounds are two and a half times denser than steel and at high volcity, wich is what types of rounds these are, will cut through armor like butter.

About Kosovo, Me personally I was against attacking Serbia. For two reasons. One, Serbia was an ally in ww2 and had rescued 500 american piolets, so I was against attacking a friend with history. Plus I didn't trust the albanians, who were muslim with a questionable history.

Sebiangirl, I'll tell you a story. Wether it's true or not, who knows, you can take it with a grain of salt. ...A Texas battalion of National Guard troops were stationed at a base in Serbia dureing that operation, several Serbian teen's got to know the troops really well and would meet with many of them by the gate every day. Albanian rebels found out about this and shelled the teens as they walked to the base, killing them.

When this Texas unit found out, they went on a rampage in the surrounding hills, supposedly killing over 700 albanians out of revenge. The unit was sent back to the states within a week and nobody talked about why. Now I only heard this story from a friend who "supposedly" knew one of the guys in the unit in question. So at best it's third hand information from me and questionable in reliability.

[Serbiangirl]

Hi Ryzorian,
first of all have to tell you, the way u talk about your country and find excuse for what they are doing, i give u a credit for that...u believe in USA and that is the most important, i am the same toward russia, and often been critisized, "they didn't help us in 1999" etc...but i still think they are the most inteligent people in the world
another thing, USA also have few important persons in science, to mention only one Nikola Tesla
about Kosovo, what can i say...Kosovo is our history back in 1389, and now Albanians are laughing all the way...but it's not over yet, time will tell
i hope u know they are involved in narko chains in europe, traffic etc
europe felt sorry for them, now sweden and few more countries are paying the price for taking refuges,,,it's fine by me
but here we are talking about libya not serbia
if u take a look at the desert u'll see pieces of green land, that mean there is water....so i don't understand how the rest of the world can call him dictator and he did so much for his people...building the whole water system in the midlle of the desert, dictator doesn't think about people, only about themselves, and what about gaddafi's idea to use gold coins .....and forget about $...German Sterligov write about that it is very interesting