UN-NATO attack on Libya

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

There is no South Vietnam. You lose. Thanks for playing.

I mean I'm sure that there are some Vietnamese out there who don't think much of the current regime. Just like there are guys in the US who call themselves Confederates. But in a political context there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying (North) Vietnam won USA lost.

So you are saying during the time of the war, there was not a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam, and the US was not allied with South Vietnam, and that in the end North Vietnam won and after that North and South reunified to become the singular Vietnam?

That's not what you said before, and that's all I am calling you out on. Your use of parentheses above is a half-hearted attempt to correct yourself, but your comparison to Confederates is way off.

It is stupid to continue to play semantics like this with you, so I will end my comments with you on this here.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

So you are saying during the time of the war, there was not a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam, and the US was not allied with South Vietnam, and that in the end North Vietnam won and after that North and South reunified to become the singular Vietnam?

lol.. where did you get that from? During the time of the war there WAS a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam. Kinda like there is a North and a South Korea.

I'm saying there ISN'T a South Vietnam now. So saying Vietnam won and the USA lost in the context Ryozorian and I were speaking is perfectly fine.

That's not what you said before, and that's all I am calling you out on. Your use of parentheses above is a half-hearted attempt to correct yourself, but your comparison to Confederates is way off.

Bullsh*t. All I said that you took issue with was that the USA lost and Vietnam won. You tried to call me out on the idea that it was a civil war which it wasn't. Because you didn't know what you were talking about YOU'RE the one resorting to playing semantics.

There is nothing wrong with what I said in a political context (you know.. the context me and Ryozorian were discussing)

It is stupid to continue to play semantics like this with you, so I will end my comments with you on this here.

Like I said.. you're the one that is playing semantics. Me and Ryozorian were having a perfectly fine exchange before you decided to butt in.

Oh wait.. you're probably as butthurt as he is that VIETNAM WON and the USA lost haha.

I mean really.. what point were you trying to make? South Vietnam lost too? Sure... BOTH the USA and South Vietnam lost. It doesn't make what I said incorrect.

[Ronin4hire]

PS- I love how you're ignoring the fact that Kozyra exposed your political bias.

It just goes to show the kind of mod you are and that I was right about you.

[Nyororin]

Step back and stop making this personal. You can say what you want to say and clarify without making personal attacks. The whole slew of personal attacks that have been tossed out are uncalled for, no matter how much you dislike someone or their views.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Step back and stop making this personal. You can say what you want to say and clarify without making personal attacks. The whole slew of personal attacks that have been tossed out are uncalled for, no matter how much you dislike someone or their views.

I won't deny that it's become personal... but I haven't broken any rules.

(MMM will probably deny it though... but then he is the one who is trolling my comments trying to look for a hole somewhere so he can "catch me out" so he's not fooling anyone.)

[Ryzorian]

Ronin; I'm not "hurt" that the US left South vietnam to fend for itself and that it lost soon after. I'm dissapointed that the US polotical bosses didn't have the toughness required to beat an insurrection of that type. They are beatable. just takes longer and more personal than we wanted to involve.

As to how the vets feel and how they were treated, yes I agree they were mistreated. Yes some have nightmares about it. Yes the fighting was a tough slog.

My Comment about today is that aside from those vets, the war's effect on the US is exstreamly limited because it was all fought in Vietnam, thus the physical and emotional damage vietnam took full bore. The USA did not.The average American under the age of 30 probably doesn't even care.

Kozyra; Isreal is the Victim here. The Palstians can live in trans Jordan..the 90% of the land agreed to for the Arabs. Oh wait, the Arabs think as highly of palistians as much as Europeans reguard gypsies. They don't move to Jordan because the Jordanians don't want them either.

You also miss the point about the mothers hateing Isreal bit. It all stems from that. As long as palistians and muslims in general hate Isreal they will keep attacking it, as long as they keep attacking, Isreal will keep defending themselves and you will have 15 killed here, 10 killed there. You want that to stop? Stop attacking them.

The USA hasn't stolen any wealth from arab countries, that's a bunch of bull your fed by your leaders and mullahs. We buy that oil at ridiculasly high prices. Your shieks are the riches guys on the planet, you want to know where the money we spent went? look to them. Hell, Dubai builds artifical islands made to look like palm trees.

It would had been easier if we did just move our armies in and take the oil fields, specially in Iraq. However, we didn't do that, it's why the new drilling leases in Iraq went to Russia and China.

In fact, if not for Bin Ladin and his stupidity we wouldn't be in Iraq, Afganistan, attacking Pakistan with drones, bombing Lybia, nor haveing the 5th fleet stationed in BaRain. It's his fault the US presence is everywhere over there. Yet you want Bin Ladin to hit the US again? Perhaps deep down you secretely wish all of the Middle east was Occupied by American forces?

[Kozyra]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Kozyra; Isreal is the Victim here. The Palstians can live in trans Jordan..the 90% of the land agreed to for the Arabs. Oh wait, the Arabs think as highly of palistians as much as Europeans reguard gypsies. They don't move to Jordan because the Jordanians don't want them either.

Palestinians live under poor conditions in Jordan, they want to return to their homeland and their homes destroyed in Palestine to build new homes and build their own government, like any other country, they have the right to do that because it is their land in the original.

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

You also miss the point about the mothers hateing Isreal bit. It all stems from that. As long as palistians and muslims in general hate Isreal they will keep attacking it, as long as they keep attacking, Isreal will keep defending themselves and you will have 15 killed here, 10 killed there. You want that to stop? Stop attacking them.

You're wrong, Arab and Muslim mothers hate the oppressor and murderer and traitor, and who shed blood and the slaughter of the people and steal the land and who is lying and who destroys houses more than their love for their children, whether Israel or others, and Israel began the occupation of land and The fight and the chaos in Palestine, and Palestinians who are defending themselves by some weak missiles launched on the territory of Israel , not Israel .
Do you want from Hamas to stop ?
If Israelis hold up their belongings and go back to where they came, the war and the fight will stop and the peace will return to the Middle East and America and Israelis too, because Bin Laden will stop too , but of course Israel will not do that and Israel will continue its plans to control the land between the rivers Nile and Euphrates by any means, and will continue to kill Palestinians and The destruction of their homes, and will continue its global campaign by the perception that the Arab terrorists, and will continue to lie to the people until all their demands be realized.

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

The USA hasn't stolen any wealth from arab countries, that's a bunch of bull your fed by your leaders and mullahs. We buy that oil at ridiculasly high prices. Your shieks are the riches guys on the planet, you want to know where the money we spent went? look to them. Hell, Dubai builds artifical islands made to look like palm trees.

I mean Iraq .
I think what the United Arab Emirates are doing is wrong, it's not the right time to build the islands, because there are priorities, and the prioritie now is to develop education, industry and help the poor and to secure temporary housing for Palestinian refugees until the right time that they can return Their homeland and their homes.

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

It would had been easier if we did just move our armies in and take the oil fields, specially in Iraq. However, we didn't do that, it's why the new drilling leases in Iraq went to Russia and China.

The U.S. government stole huge amounts of oil in Iraq for free , or I must to say that the U.S. government paid for that oil through the lives of U.S. soldiers after U.S. government deceived and lied to them.

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

In fact, if not for Bin Ladin and his stupidity we wouldn't be in Iraq, Afganistan, attacking Pakistan with drones, bombing Lybia, nor haveing the 5th fleet stationed in BaRain. It's his fault the US presence is everywhere over there. Yet you want Bin Ladin to hit the US again? Perhaps deep down you secretely wish all of the Middle east was Occupied by American forces?

I do not want from Bin Laden to strike America again, because there are a lot of American people is innocent, adding that Islam forbids killing women and children, elderly and the destruction of churches.
Hahaha ....... U.S. occupies all the Arab countries? This is a great joke.

[Atredies]

kozyra. i would never worry too much. by the time china becomes powerful, china will force america to make peace with muslim countries. this is becoming a reality.

i am a christian american who had spent two years of my life in a muslim country called indonesia. i can never see islam a serious world problem. the mass media wants to make islam a problem for the sake of making money.

peace originates from loving love. love thy neighbors.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by termogard

Most people here aren't experts of rifles. Many of them never carried a military service. They have no access to classified sources of information. And even such "abridged source" like Wikipedia says true facts regarding to amount and quality of Russian weaponry in Vietnam.

Agreed, but not all, so just watch who you are chastising as needing to go study.

Vietnam was such a political cesspool, the only thing that classifies it as a war (in my mind at least) was the body count caused by the out-of control egos of powerbrokers - specifically Ho Chi Minh, Ngo Dinh Diem, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Mao Tse-Tung, Nguyễn Văn Thiệu, Nguyen Cao Ky, General Westmorland, Robert McNamara, and Nixon (he was a major proponent of combat escalation when VP under Eisenhower). The boys wanted to play fast and loose with people's lives for what was the equivalent of an arm wrestling match. And in one way or another they all lost, even Ho Chi Minh, because the Vietnam he was trying to build never materialized and the country is almost as capitalistic as if the west had just taken over.

[Ryzorian]

The Big irony is that Vietnam invaded Cambodia to free it from Pol Pot who was nothing more than a Butcher.

Kozyra; You and I will just not be able to agree. Everything you claim the US and Isreal is doing to Arabs and Palistians, I think Muslim Arabs and Palistians are doing to the US and Isreal. ..I suspect that we are probabably both wrong in some ways and both right in others.

The US never got free oil from Iraq, not one barrel. Maybe the Opec nations can pay 10million barrels of free oil a day to the US as "tribute", to keep the US out of the Middle east, includeing Ireal. After all, that's all we really want anyway.