what do you think is real Japanese culture?

[dogsbody70]

for those who are crazy about japanese culture-- what is your idea or knowledge of it and its history?

surely its not all about manga and anime.

[JBaymore]

College level study in the past. Bit of time spent in Japan. Teach Japanese ceramic art history at the college level (professor). Speak a tiny bit of Japanese. Read a lot on Japanese history and culture, to stay current.

And....... I know that I know diddly . Scratching the surface.

best,

............john

[JohnBraden]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

surely its not all about manga and anime.

I consider those as branches of pop culture, which is a branch of culture itself.

When I think of Japanese culture, I think of its history, architecture, the arts and its cuisine.

I just have a basic knowledge of history and I can see how geography has effected its development. I read about it a little at a time and gain a little perspective.

I can see the architecture and its beauty when I'm photographing it, but I don't know much about it.

I just have a bit more than a passing interest in Japanese culture and I learn a bit when I'm curious about something.

[Tsuwabuki]

えと、日本人論と国体かな?

Seriously though, I think it is difficult to define, especially in English, what constitutes Japanese culture when the Japanese can't define these terms themselves in Japanese. The ones I posted above, "nihonjinron" and "kokutai," are very difficult to translate into English, and even when I try I still feel like I haven't done them justice because of all of the 論文 (papers, essays) that are constantly written in Japan about the issue. Add in English language scholars like Timothy Hoye, Edwin Reischauer, or Herbert Bix, and the issue becomes even more convoluted.

I can sit here and rattle off a list of parts of Japanese culture, but will I really be defining what Japanese Culture is inherently or fundamentally? And how do I deal with major changes under Meiji, or Taisho Democracy, or Imperial Japan during the first part of Showa, or Showa's promulgation of the 1946 constitution, or Post-War Japan under Showa, or changes under Heisei? And we'll have to seriously look at how Japanese culture is progressing and what it might look like under the reign of Crown Prince Naruhito...

The Japanese have always been able to adapt elements of non-Japanese culture and make it "和事" (Japanese Concept/Thing/Item). This was in large part why the Meiji Restoration was so successful and why Japan never fell to colonialism the way other Asian countries did. It was also the reason why Imperial Japan became colonial itself after being primarily isolationist under Meiji (Russo-Japanese war being a very notable exception), and why after surrendering, Hirohito was able to present pacifism and functioning democracy as "inherently Japanese" ideas, reaching all the way back into Japanese history to show the councils between the Emperor, the Shogun, the Daimyo, and the Samurai as the beginnings of representative government.

I can only answer in a conundrum wrapped in an enigma covered by a riddle: Japanese culture is, and has always been, exactly what the Japanese believe it to be.

[Realism]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

for those who are crazy about japanese culture-- what is your idea or knowledge of it and its history?

surely its not all about manga and anime.

For most people, it is mostly anime and manga. Simply because "real" Japanese culture, history.....is in fact pretty boring.

Come on now, do you care about your own country's history and culture and all that stuff? I mean, would you go to a bookstore and buy a history book about your own country, sit down, and read it like it's the most exciting thing ever?

You probably wouldn't right? You probably think it's dreadfully boring.

I'm sure if you want to get a taste of "real" Japanese culture. You would probably want to attend Kabuki shows, 落語、watch Japanese traditional dances like　舞踊、Listen to えんか、watch movies like 怪談, read novels like こころ、先生の鞄、安倍清明、Go eat some traditional Japanese food, read about its history blah blah blah...

let me tell you...a lot of stuff cannot really hold my attention long. And it's quite boring for even Japanese people as well. There's a reason why everyone would rather watch Manzai than Rakugo, or people rather listen to Southern All Stars rather than Enka.

I saw the movie 怪談 and liked it, so I went to Japanese websites and read what Japanese people thought about the film....it puts them to sleep, a lot of them think the movie is just straight up boring.

That's how it is these days, can't do much about it.

[JBaymore]

Tsuwabuki....... GREAT posting!!!!! すばらしですよ。


best,

............john

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

えと、日本人論と国体かな?

The Japanese have always been able to adapt elements of non-Japanese culture and make it "和事" (Japanese Concept/Thing/Item). This was in large part why the Meiji Restoration was so successful and why Japan never fell to colonialism the way other Asian countries did. It was also the reason why Imperial Japan became colonial itself after being primarily isolationist under Meiji (Russo-Japanese war being a very notable exception), and why after surrendering, Hirohito was able to present pacifism and functioning democracy as "inherently Japanese" ideas, reaching all the way back into Japanese history to show the councils between the Emperor, the Shogun, the Daimyo, and the Samurai as the beginnings of representative government.

How is this unique to the Japanese? All "cultures" have elements within it that were originally borrowed or copied and modified as well as moments when they have been "reimagined"

I mean I've heard this being said before but I don't buy it.

A common theme in many nationalistic or cultural discourse (I translate Nihonjinron to "discourse of Japaneseness") is that of uniqueness. And it sounds very convincing on it's own.. except when you compare it to other cultures and you realise that it's not all that unique in the general sense.

[Nyororin]

Real Japanese culture to me? What I live on a daily basis. I don`t really think I have any elaborate image of "Japanese culture" as a whole, just a combination of various things through daily life.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

How is this unique to the Japanese? All "cultures" have elements within it that were originally borrowed or copied and modified as well as moments when they have been "reimagined"

I think that when people point this out in regard to Japan, it is the short length of time it takes / has taken for things to be go from completely foreign to irrevocably Japanese. Things can go from being completely unknown in Japan to being a deeply ingrained part of life in a very short period of time - and often ending up with a Japanese enough flair to make it unique. Or at the very least, to make it seem as if it had always been there.

I don`t really think that any specific part of Japanese culture is unique - it all exists elsewhere in some form or another. I don`t think that anyone would debate this. It`s the specific combination of the traits that is unique to Japan.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I think that when people point this out in regard to Japan, it is the short length of time it takes / has taken for things to be go from completely foreign to irrevocably Japanese. Things can go from being completely unknown in Japan to being a deeply ingrained part of life in a very short period of time - and often ending up with a Japanese enough flair to make it unique. Or at the very least, to make it seem as if it had always been there.

I don`t really think that any specific part of Japanese culture is unique - it all exists elsewhere in some form or another. I don`t think that anyone would debate this. It`s the specific combination of the traits that is unique to Japan.

I think I agree. Which means that it is true with other cultures too.

I would say that all cultures are unique in that they are a specific combination of traits. But they are the same in that these traits all exist within them.

[Tsuwabuki]

Looks like we agree, but it took me a long time to write that so I missed the above posts.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

How is this unique to the Japanese? All "cultures" have elements within it that were originally borrowed or copied and modified as well as moments when they have been "reimagined"

It's not if you merely look at it that way. However it IS if you look at the combination as a whole. While the whole of Japanese culture may be made up of different cultural elements (Yamato itself being made up of previous cultural elements from mainland Asia prior the founding of the Chrysanthemum Throne by Jimmu, supposedly), the combination of those elements are what makes Japanese culture a unique culture. Kinda like that saying, "we're all unique, just like everyone else." Often said disparagingly about those that seem to overstate individualism, for both people and cultures, it is true. The one thing we have in common is that our combinations are all different sum totals.

A common theme in many nationalistic or cultural discourse (I translate Nihonjinron to "discourse of Japaneseness") is that of uniqueness. And it sounds very convincing on it's own.. except when you compare it to other cultures and you realise that it's not all that unique in the general sense.

I actually don't agree. I think 日本人論 and 国体 have been misappropriated to sometimes be compared to fascist doctrines like National Socialism and its related ideologies of German Exceptionalism and Führerprinzip quite unfairly. In the early 1900s, it was taught to Hirohito to a certain degree, although I would argue, given the scholarship available, that it was not quite as violent or militant as it would become at the time of the death of Taisho. Certainly in the 1930s and 1940s, this misappropriation was at its worst by extreme right wing elements of Hirohito's cabinet, especially in the Navy and Army ministries. Athough Hirohito was unlikely to have been anything we would remotely call a racial egalitarian, he initially had a very healthy fear of the advantages in trade and war that Britain and America held. I think, and have argued elsewhere, that Hirohito's behavior towards the end of the war which drummed up even more extreme and warped versions of the inherent superiority of the Japanese people was really caused by his concerns that Japan would lose, and his throne would be lost with it. He allowed himself to become a supporter of the extremist versions espoused by his increasingly militant ministers because perhaps if you repeat something long enough, loud enough, and with enough conviction, it will become true. He was not, however, an entirely blameless bystander, and to understand why, we would have to deeply go into how the Emperor is described in the Meiji Constitution of 1889, which would be at least a three or four page paper, single spaced.

My point here is that 日本人論 and 国体 as inherently "evil" ideas is something I don't buy. I do think that they can be used to adequately describe the unique combination of cultural elements that make up "Japaneseness" as long as we be careful to avoid equating "unique" with "superior."

I was recently asked by a Japanese university student to explain to her in English how to translate 日本人論. This is what I said:

You've asked a fairly complicated question. 日本人論 is not easily
translated into English. A direct translation would be "Opinions on
the Japanese" but more accurately might be translated to "Opinions on
the uniqueness and specialness of Japaneseness as written, discussed,
taught, and believed by the Japanese."

Although 日本人論 is a legitimate scholarly field, especially at the 大学院
level in Japan, it applies to all aspects of Japanese education,
formal and informal, at home, and in the schools. Along with 国体, a
view of the national polity of Japan as one "family" (either under or
with the Emperor or not), 日本人論 serves to explain to Japanese
individuals how they fit together as a society, and how Japan fits
into the world at large. I would say that neither 日本人論 nor 国体 are
ever specifically mentioned as societal education standards, and you
certainly won't find them as titles of courses, but they subtly imbue
most, if not all, aspects of Japanese society.