japanese only signs

[givemesomebeer]

___________of japanese way of life but i let that to japanese) i dont care if others think its not what they think is japanese, i know they would like it if they would see in me(="see" so much as i do), its all complicated when its concerning my gift+my own version of japanese exotic+pokemon+usa, its all in 1 and thus its complicated..... pokemon holds a very large part of my connection to japan and pokemon prevents me from thinking that japan is 100% foreign hostile, my connection to japan cant be undone coz pokemon would bring me back down and "show me real japan"(u dont understand it now even if u think that u understand, i dont mean "in pokemon is no racism thus japan is not racist"), pokemon is like a mediator coz its part of japan and at the same time i see it personally so it connects me to japan coz its part of japan but also part of me, pokemon explains about japan(though its some other kind of japan and its fictive)................. clearing up the situation would bring the stubborn gauge down and non misinterpret japan..........

concerning that hair police, it contradicts this: u wouldnt be against to have exotic ppl in ur country which look different which ucant find in else japan, it doesnt mean that u admire blond hair(im now only thinking about my best friend thus i write this coz he looks beautiful and u would like how he looks like) but u would like to approve this individual coz u would find him pretty(only reason i write this is coz everybody would like how my best friend looks like ) and why should be against it, this hair police though only found in schools contradicts to let him look beautiful as he is , it would be dumb to want to change his hair color coz he looks so amazing, and if u want it then u must be dumb or sick(though we have to accept the fact that there exist many ugly ppl with no flat hair and i dont know how they accept themselves coz i dont understand but appearance is our manifistation of personality and thus they r themselves and probably wouldnt want to be different), of course my best friend has flat hair as me(nobody has a similar hair to him than me), i have dark hair but not japanese black,,,, im just amazed at how my best friend looks like and all this issue with hairpolice just doesnt adds up.....sorry to interrupt but u would like to serve him coz u wouldnt resist(to japanese only shop keepers)....(rational japanese wouldnt want to destroy this beauty, i dont know what to say to those schools other than japanese will love how he looks like and adore him not coz u have black hair but coz i adore him(and if i do it then it has nothing to do with racism))


this quote should be standing before this long text coz i wanted to write something else

Not this topic again.

u want to hide that japan has racist shopkeepers?


see this reply "as is", dont complain coz text is too long and u waste time, u either want to know my thoughts or not, want somebody speak for japan ?(otherwise japanese only signs speak for japan)

[StonerPenguin]

Um, how old are you? Anyway, I guess you didn't read what some of the others (who have lived in Japan) posted.

Originally Posted by MMM

You are saying you saw signs like this in Japan? I lived in Japan for a few years, and only remember one time seeing a sign like that (at a massage parlor) and was a welcome guest at dozens... maybe hundreds of bars and restaurants.

You can easily spend months and years in Japan and never be told you cannot enter an establishment because you weren't Japanese.

Originally Posted by RickOShay

I concur, 7 years in Japan and I have seen one of those signs.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I have never personally seen one of these signs (and I`ve been in Japan for more than ten years and have traveled pretty extensively) - and have only heard second hand (as in from another person who personally saw one, not rumors or FOAF) of them being put up at the hostess clubs, soap lands, and erotic massage parlors.

There is a reason why almost all of them are reported by men. I`m sure there may be some that are up at other establishments, like the famous onsen case, where there have been issues in the past. I will also say that I`ve never visited one of the US base areas, so cannot comment on their numbers there (I`ve heard that this is where they`re most common - but still the great majority at sex related businesses.)

Those signs are mostly only at porno places, as a woman you'd probably never even see one. Japan isn't this terrible place you're depicting it as, lots of foreigners live and visit there happily. You can take the members on this forum as proof of that.

Also, you might want to put a little more effort in your grammar and spelling because your messages are hard to understand

[steel]

Getting sick of Debito:

Why I Turned On Debito.org | Japan Probe

[Nyororin]

The "Wall of text" style posting is seriously discouraging me from answering in depth... *sigh*

In regard to uniform enforcement - I have only ever seen or heard of the "natural hair color" rule being enforced. As in, "Do not dye your hair." I have heard of a blonde girl getting in trouble for dying her hair black (years and years ago) because it was not her natural color - even though it would have "fit in" better with the other students. I actually attended a Japanese high school. I do not have black hair, but was never asked to dye it in any way - I was directed to follow the rules of not dying my hair at all, just like all the other students.

These days it seems that more school are using the term "natural" to mean "reasonable" or "occurring in nature" rather than the "color you were born with". There are certainly no shortage of Japanese students with various shades of lightened hair.

In regard to the signs... No one has denied they exist. Chances are though, you`d have to LOOK for them to find one (And even if you were looking, there is a pretty low likelihood of spotting one.) They are not a normal thing. You do not see them all over the place. They`re incredibly rare. There are a LOT of people in Japan, and a LOT of businesses. It is inevitable that there are going to be some people with strong racist ideas. That doesn`t mean that the majority of Japan is like that. As I said, I have been here more than 10 years, have traveled quite extensively and have never seen a single one of those signs, nor have I ever been refused service.

u want to hide that japan has racist shopkeepers?

No, he was commenting on the fact that this topic comes up every so often. It is usually (always?) brought up by people who see the stuff on Debito`s site and who have no real experience in Japan - thinking that the situation is much different than reality.

This thread is no exception.

Getting sick of Debito:

Why I Turned On Debito.org | Japan Probe

I hadn`t seen that. *applause*
Everyone who uses him as a source of "balanced" information about Japan should read it.

[steel]

I concur. People who don't understand the extreme lengths to which people like Debito go to gather and solicit 'No Japanese' signs - often from places you're not going to encounter anyways unless you're looking for a handjob in a massage parlor or drink in an overpriced filipina kabakura - are misled thinking that they are going to be encountering some kind of denial of service on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. Nothing of the kind.

Often, Debito's 'followers' are zealously looking for slights that were unintended or simply not there.

A few months ago, I was surprised to hear of this 'gross example of discriminatory' service at a QB House in Tameike Sanno in Tokyo - which was first taken up by a Debito-tard: debito.org

Since it's near the US Embassy and office buildings like Ark Mori and AT&T Buildings, I know plenty of gaijin including myself who have dropped by for a quick Y1,000 trim without any issue whatsoever.

Instead we have a Debito-tard who spots the supposedly offending sign, but fails to confirm whether there was any matching discriminatory treatment or unfair treatment. Rather piggy wiggy squeals 'discrimination!' and runs to email Debito.

In English, Please! | Japan Probe
Tidying up the QB House sign incident | Tepido.org - Not the Hokkaido Crusader

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

In regard to the signs... No one has denied they exist. Chances are though, you`d have to LOOK for them to find one (And even if you were looking, there is a pretty low likelihood of spotting one.) They are not a normal thing. You do not see them all over the place. They`re incredibly rare. There are a LOT of people in Japan, and a LOT of businesses. It is inevitable that there are going to be some people with strong racist ideas. That doesn`t mean that the majority of Japan is like that. As I said, I have been here more than 10 years, have traveled quite extensively and have never seen a single one of those signs, nor have I ever been refused service.

As I said earlier.

Debito's point isn't that Japan is a country full of racists. It's that there is no legislation protecting minorities.

Debito is a lawyer after all and his main concern is with Japanese law.

The fact that they are ALLOWED to exist is the problem regardless of the situation.

The simple fact is that in Japan you are allowed to have these signs whereas in most of the west at least.. this is illegal.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by steel

Instead we have a Debito-tard who spots the supposedly offending sign, but fails to confirm whether there was any matching discriminatory treatment or unfair treatment. Rather piggy wiggy squeals 'discrimination!' and runs to email Debito.

While this only partially pertains to the QB House sign issue, there is a trend I have noticed among some foreigners in Japan when it comes to opinions on language ability. Asking them to speak Japanese while in Japan is somehow incredibly unreasonable and even discriminatory... But *expecting* Japanese people (again, in Japan) to speak English for their benefit is not. They often completely fail to realize how incredibly contradictory this is.

It never fails to stun me. This may just be an American thing, but it becomes even more shocking when they (as is often the case) speak up in support of making English ability mandatory for receiving service in the US.

Debito's point isn't that Japan is a racist country. It's that there is no legislation protecting minorities.

And my point was that they are not common. They are not - regardless of legislation.

Either way, if Debito`s point is legislation - he needs to send out a memo to all those who follow him. They are off on a crusade against racism and perceived racism (more of the latter than the former), and he is certainly not stopping them.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

While this only partially pertains to the QB House sign issue, there is a trend I have noticed among some foreigners in Japan when it comes to opinions on language ability. Asking them to speak Japanese while in Japan is somehow incredibly unreasonable and even discriminatory... But *expecting* Japanese people (again, in Japan) to speak English for their benefit is not. They often completely fail to realize how incredibly contradictory this is.

It never fails to stun me. This may just be an American thing, but it becomes even more shocking when they (as is often the case) speak up in support of making English ability mandatory for receiving service in the US.

Going from my experience, I think this might be less of an American thing actually and more of a thing with non-native English speakers.

The reason being that in many countries (including Japan)... English is the compulsory second language. Most educated people in Europe and South America have a decent grasp of the English language.

These people expect Japanese to speak English to them because they expect people at home to speak English to foreigners in the same way.

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by givemesomebeer

___________of japanese way of life but i let that to japanese) i dont care if others think its not what they think is japanese, i know they would like it if they would see in me(="see" so much as i do), its all complicated when its concerning my gift+my own version of japanese exotic+pokemon+usa, its all in 1 and thus its complicated..... pokemon holds a very large part of my connection to japan and pokemon prevents me from thinking that japan is 100% foreign hostile, my connection to japan cant be undone coz pokemon would bring me back down and "show me real japan"(u dont understand it now even if u think that u understand, i dont mean "in pokemon is no racism thus japan is not racist"), pokemon is like a mediator coz its part of japan and at the same time i see it personally so it connects me to japan coz its part of japan but also part of me, pokemon explains about japan(though its some other kind of japan and its fictive)................. clearing up the situation would bring the stubborn gauge down and non misinterpret japan..........

Okay, dude, Japan isn't Pokemon. Geez. NOT POKEMON. If America is what cartoons make it out to be, then it'd be a lot better place eh. If your connection to Japan is Pokemon... you don't have a connection with Japan, at least in the way you're making out. Not even close.

I truly am laughing at your 'coz pokemon would bring me back down and "show me real japan" line. Nothing, I repeat NOTHING about Pokemon shows the 'real Japan.'

No... it does not explain Japan. I mean, like you said it's fiction... since when the heck did fiction show the true country? I suppose you believe there's a Narnia in every wardrobe too?

And you seem to be the one misinterpreting Japan, dude...

[steel]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

As I said earlier.

Debito's point isn't that Japan is a country full of racists. It's that there is no legislation protecting minorities.

Debito is a lawyer after all and his main concern is with Japanese law.

The fact that they are ALLOWED to exist is the problem regardless of the situation.

The simple fact is that in Japan you are allowed to have these signs whereas in most of the west at least.. this is illegal.

Debito is most definitely NOT a lawyer!