Japanophile - and other open discussion

[MMM]

Originally Posted by steven

But what difference does it make? Is that extra information really needed?

This is the point I was trying to reach, but didn't.

What difference does it make? This can be about the plurality of cows in the field, or the reason a friend feels uncomfortable in group situations.

I don't know if age has anything to do with it, but the older I get, the less I am concerned about with other people's motivations, but more the results of their actions.

If someone told me in Japanese they had a dog(s), I really wouldn't be so concerned if they had one, or more than one. Generally people volunteer that kind of information without being prodded, whether it be English or Japanese.

I think this need for "truth" like a agent on X-Files is a little over-dramatic. None of us need the ultimate "truth" to function perfectly fine in our social interactions. We just need enough information to allow us to respond and proceed appropriately. Again, this is true both in Japanese and in English.

Originally Posted by tokusatsufan

MMM,was that meant to be saying English was good? You've showed it to us a thousand times! It was even the last time I forgot my key and had to stay here!

It meant to say English can be illogical, confusing and inaccurate.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by steven

Okay, I see what you meant now. What you are saying about translated books is very interesting actually. If it were one or two books I'd attribute the phenomenon to the translator(s). It sounds like you've read quite a few though, so I think the idea that it's down to the translator(s) isn't a good one.

It is down to the translator in a lot of cases, but, well, there is a difference to the feeling when the translation is bad. It`s really hard for me to explain clearly, but a bad translation feels like a bad translation.

I'm wondering Nyororin, do you have any experience with comparing technical documents? Or historical documents or anything else that is less expressive by nature than literature?

Comparing those translated from a third language - not much. Usually if I`m reading something technical, it either started in English or in Japanese. (And about half the time I`m the one who has to translate it...)

However, with science related things, while I don`t feel that Japanese is unable to convey things - technical words have a tendency to follow the international standard. In other words, they are the "same" in English, Japanese, and most languages. In Japanese they`re just written in Katakana.
This can make technical documentation end up a literal maze of English word after English word, linked up in a Japanese grammatical structure.

But, in what I have seen of technical documentation in languages other than English and Japanese - the same thing is usually the case regardless of the country. I am wane to agree it is because Japanese isn`t suited for technical writing - every language doesn`t come up with their own version of "server" or "touch panel".

When it comese to historical documentation, what exactly do you mean? History books? Or contemporary documents? I have found neither to be stilted in any way. Contemporary documents are a pain to read though as they`re not modern, but that`s about it.

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I think this need for "truth" like a agent on X-Files is a little over-dramatic. None of us need the ultimate "truth" to function perfectly fine in our social interactions. We just need enough information to allow us to respond and proceed appropriately. Again, this is true both in Japanese and in English.

I`ll go a step further and say (speaking as a linguist here) that the perceived need for the details, such as the difference between dog/dogs when it doesn`t really matter in the conversation, is entirely cultural. I don`t really think that it has anything to do with the "truth". It has everything to do with what you are accustomed to hearing.
I know a woman who is a native French speaker. She has said that it seems so frustrating to her that there are no genders in English. Something large and important is missing. Literature is empty and dry - like a science paper. To her, they are necessary - without them, speech feels incomplete and less expressive.
To the native speaker of English, however, having a gender for each word seems completely unnecessary.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Wow... I just don`t even know what to say to this.
It`s not an even balance because you can`t speak them evenly.

Just because you don`t know the proper vocabulary doesn`t mean it is not there.
There is a tendency to feel that the language you are weaker in is a weaker language. It`s not. It`s your own ability. If you have a limited vocabulary, the entire language is going to seem limited. It has nothing to do with the actual qualities of the language.

I wasn't expecting to get chewed out when I came back to this thread lol.

Steven asked for ways in which one language felt better or worse than the other. I gave my opinion.

I thought I was being pretty clear saying it was the way I felt, in hindsight I should have been more explicit, as usual! haha I really gotta cover my tracks around here or I come off as a real asshole.

Yeah English is what I'm used to, so Japanese feels inaccurate.
Actually French is what I'm used to, and English feels inaccurate!
Going from French to Japanese feels even more so.

The fact of the matter is that less details are conveyed in regular conversation in Japanese. The language doesn't lack the tools necessary to do so, but the people who use it, and the way they use it, is such that it simply conveys far fewer details than native English speakers are used to.

This, by the way, is what I meant by crude, lacking detail. And like I said, it's just the way I feel.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`ll go a step further and say (speaking as a linguist here) that the perceived need for the details, such as the difference between dog/dogs when it doesn`t really matter in the conversation, is entirely cultural. I don`t really think that it has anything to do with the "truth". It has everything to do with what you are accustomed to hearing.
I know a woman who is a native French speaker. She has said that it seems so frustrating to her that there are no genders in English. Something large and important is missing. Literature is empty and dry - like a science paper. To her, they are necessary - without them, speech feels incomplete and less expressive.
To the native speaker of English, however, having a gender for each word seems completely unnecessary.

Honestly I agree with the French woman, English feels crude to me at times.

[letselschadeadvocaat]

Hello, I am living in the Netherlands and would like to move to Japan. Can someone help me out? What is the best location to live? We have 3 kids of 6, 8 and 11. What are the best international schools for them to join?

[beepblue]

As a minor, I'd like to point out that kids everywhere are horribly misrepresented. The amount of homework is steadily increasing (not necessarily a good thing), as is the difficulty of the material. While there are some incredibly immature kids who do, in fact, live off of cell phones and video games, not everyone is like that. Just saying.