Japanophile - and other open discussion

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by MMM

I see two different things going on here:

1) It sounds like she has had a certain level of break from reality. If she stopped leaving the house, stopped going to school, stopped answering the phone, stopped contacting her family, etc. I have seen this happen with an American and a Englishman living in Japan, and it sounds like very similar situations. It may be some form of culture shock/homesickness. She deserves some compassion, and probably should get some professional help.

2) You are applying your cultural values onto a person with a very different set of cultural values. You said "If one can't contact someone by phone and is very worried is it so wrong to go and find out?" And the answer in Japan is "YES! It is none of your business! Leave me alone!" The fact that you and your friends are not reading the clear signals she is sending you is only making her more frustrated, and (probably) making her more crazy.

She is wanting to live in England permanently. SHe has often come to us without prior notice. Anyway if this means the end of the what I thought was friendship-- I will have to accept that I guess. She was the one who chased after Us--she has cultivated quite a lot of English people. She is obsessed with renewing her visa. Still sees Japanese people in London every week etc.


I guess the time has arrived that she no longer needs us.

Thanks for your help and advice-- it helps me to understand better-- My trouble is that I am too fond of her and worry about her.

Incidentally-- My friend never has her phone switched on unless she is phoning someone herself. She told me that since working many years for TEPCO and having enormous responsibilities-- being the only woman with that particular HONOUR---------she was terrified whenever the phones rang. she has a phobia about phones. Uses email for most of her contacting.


Anyway I am grateful for insights so thanks for that. If she wishes to live here forever she needs to get used to English ways. Her landlady is very open and wants people to call.

If I could simply have phoned-- then no problem at all.

I grew up in an era without telephones, and people or family would just turn up.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Having to meet at a cafe or restaurant or some other place that invariable costs money or requires for you to be dressed in a way more presentable than you would in your own home, means that your friends see you that way nearly all the time, and not in your comfortable at-home way.

This leads me to wonder how it is that you dress at home that you couldn`t go outside that way...

Meeting outside the home is easier for everyone involved when you consider the amount of effort and planning that is required for having someone in your home. When something is not up to par at home, it`s entirely your responsibility - when out, it isn`t.
In my case, other than when in my pajamas, I don`t really dress down to the point that I couldn`t go out... So I can`t comment on that part. If I`m in my pajamas, I wouldn`t want anyone other than close family around anyway.

I can honestly say that in general the number and quality of friendships the average North American has are far more and far stronger than those of the average Japanese person.

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. You feel that the Japanese style of friendship is not as good as the style you are accustomed to... But would someone who grew up with the Japanese style agree? I`ve heard from Japanese people who have lived abroad that they constantly felt pressured, intruded upon, and that friendship meant less because everyone was an instant "close friend" (ie. didn`t go through proper steps of friendship).

It`s all about what you`re used to and how you perceive things.

@Nyororin,
Why do you think the home is such an ultra-private place for Japanese people compared to that of other cultures?
It seems to me like the homes of old in Japan were not so much like this as they are today, I'm saying this based on historical tv-shows I see in Japanese TV by the way.

What level of "historical" are we talking about?

In the distant past, privacy in itself was something for the upper classes. Privacy meant money. Even in large houses where people came and went regularly, people with money had private areas.

I think that to a point this has carried over to modern homes. There isn`t the space to have split house areas - "private" spaces and "public" spaces... And a totally public space would be really negative as privacy is linked to privilege.

So you have a private retreat, and outside spaces are for public meetings. Being invited into someone`s home (private space) carries a much greater meaning.

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by godwine

Bobby, don't want to be mean, but WE, as in James, Siokan, I and several others, have first hand experieince DEALING with Japanese, not only we dealth with them, we LIVED there (in James and Siokan's case, they LIVE THERE NOW). The "Generalization" is base on actual experience living there.

What is your exposure to Japanese and its people? I mean, we are not asking for much, we are justifying (And QUANTIFYING) our claim base one experiences, and base on news/events that we gathered through out the years

So, tell us, what makes your ideas and claim more accurate?

Hah! couldn't have said it better myself.

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by GoNative

This comimg from the guy who has never been to Japan and who claims Japan is vastly superior to every other nation! LOL Truly laughable.

Bobby people who actually have lived in Japan for sometime are entitled to express their opinions on living there based on their experiences. People who make ridiculous claims about how good Japan is when they have never been there are not so entitled. Do you understand the difference?

I think you don't and never will....

One last time dude just for you..

I have met lots and lots of lovely Koreans and Japanese on my journey around the Globe. I even shared my deepest privacy with these lovely people and yes I am entitled to my own opinion about them from my own experience with them and the lovely people from South -East Asia.

Are they superior then we are? Hell Yea!!


How in the World can you not see this?? You must have never met one in your life..

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

One last time dude just for you..

I have met lots and lots of lovely Koreans and Japanese on my journey around the Globe. I even shared my deepest privacy with these lovely people and yes I am entitled to my own opinion about them from my own experience with them and the lovely people from South -East Asia.

Are they superior then we are? Hell Yea!!


How in the World can you not see this?? You must have never met one in your life..

And one more time just for you bobby.. you have met a very small representation of an entire country. You have never set foot in this country yet since you confessed your dark secrets to the two people that you met (if that even gives you any credit) and they didn't shun you (at least to your face) and you have concluded that they are superior in every way to the rest of the world, and that you know Japan just as well or better than any of us who have spent a good percentage of our lives living with them and are even married to them. Do you not see yet how ridiculous you look to everyone here? Do you even talk to these GREAT friends of yours that you met on a regular basis? Do you facebook with them.. anything with the slightest bit of meaning?

[BobbyCooper]

And if you after all these years still cannot see that these people are something special, then my friend you need help.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

And one more time just for you bobby.. you have met a very small representation of an entire country. You have never set foot in this country yet since you confessed your dark secrets to the two people that you met (if that even gives you any credit) and they didn't shun you (at least to your face) and you have concluded that they are superior in every way to the rest of the world, and that you know Japan just as well or better than any of us who have spent a good percentage of our lives living with them and are even married to them. Do you not see yet how ridiculous you look to everyone here? Do you even talk to these GREAT friends of yours that you met on a regular basis? Do you facebook with them.. anything with the slightest bit of meaning?

Just give it up.
There is no point in trying to convince him. He NEVER listens to anything anyone has said. Apparently, all Japanese are superior to HIM and some circle of people around him - "we", so... Let`s just take it at that.

If he wants to say that all Japanese are superior to him and those he knows personally... I say let him. What do we know of him and the non-Asians he knows? Maybe he is right because of the people he has to compare to.

Anyway though - let us end the education of Bobby and resume the topic at hand.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

And if you after all these years still cannot see that these people are something special, then my friend you need help.

Did I ever say I do not think Japanese are special? Japan has always been able to carve itself a place in my heart, but unlike you, I have an experienced and balanced and REALISTIC view of Japan... but anyway.. Nyororin is right.. there is no more point to this so lets let everyone else get back to the topic at hand. You are going to think how you are going to think.. and sadly no amount authoritative experience is going to convince you otherwise.

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Just give it up.
There is no point in trying to convince him. He NEVER listens to anything anyone has said. Apparently, all Japanese are superior to HIM and some circle of people around him - "we", so... Let`s just take it at that.

If he wants to say that all Japanese are superior to him and those he knows personally... I say let him. What do we know of him and the non-Asians he knows? Maybe he is right because of the people he has to compare to.

Anyway though - let us end the education of Bobby and resume the topic at hand.

Girl, just the incredible crime rate alone gives me right! Most of the crimes which happen in Japan are done by foreigners little girl.

You gotta need to step out of your little dream world and see the facts for ones.

But this is exactly why the Western society sucks.. because of people like you.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I definitely agree about the "having people stop by" thing. At the VERY least, call at least an hour before if you`re going to just come to the door, and a day ahead if you expect to be let in.
Houses are private. Ultra-super private. I can count the number of times someone who doesn`t live here has come into my house on my fingers.

People tend to judge people on their homes, and expect to be judged on theirs. So it is very important to be ready for someone to visit. Someone suddenly stopping by and coming in is pretty awful as it gives you no chance to get ready. As most people do not keep their homes in an always-ready state, it is extremely rude to just show up out of the blue.

So... Meeting outside is much much easier. If someone does just show up at my door, they don`t expect to be let in, so I end up going out and talking to them outside the front door. It`s just how things are. Home is a private nest.

We used to have dinner parties at our house quite often. As we had renovated the house and had a great kitchen with commercial oven/cooktop it was a pleasure to have people over to enjoy some good food. Our Japanese friends were very impressed with when we roasted say a whole leg of lamb and sliced it at the table. I loved having people over mainly because I love cooking.
We had plenty of foreign friends who would just drop by if they were in the area and never had an issue with it. Neither of us are overly house proud. Even if having people over for a planned event we didn't ever worry about having the place spotless. If it was really dirty we'd just get a cleaner in as we both really hate housework.
We were well aware though of the issue Japanese people have with you just turning up and never really did it. We did have one family who we were very close to and we would occasionally if we were walking by their house (they lived close to us). They never appeared to have any problem with it but as I say we were really good friends.