Nihonjin to Romaji

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Then I don't understand this statement:

Japanese elementary school by age;

1st grade - 6 to 7
2nd grade - 7 to 8
3rd grade - 8 to 9
4th grade - 9 to 10

9 to 10 year olds learn romaji as part of the 4th grade curriculum. Children who are under 9 or 10 are far less likely to be able to read it. Anyone above that are is pretty much guaranteed to be able to read it.

Also, it's highly unlikely they'd ever get to Japan.

I`m going to agree with this. Most balloon releases end up falling within 50km of the release point. It`s very very rare for a single balloon to make it more than that (Happens in very rare circumstances, where air currents keep the balloon low while strong winds keep it moving.) Once the balloon is so high in the sky, it expands and pops because of the low atmospheric pressure.

Multiple balloon clusters, all partially filled to counteract the expansion (the numbers are so that if some do pop all will not be lost) still have trouble getting over 250 km. Unless you`re already in Japan, the chance that they`ll be picked up in Japan is pretty much nonexistent.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Japanese elementary school by age;

1st grade - 6 to 7
2nd grade - 7 to 8
3rd grade - 8 to 9
4th grade - 9 to 10

9 to 10 year olds learn romaji as part of the 4th grade curriculum. Children who are under 9 or 10 are far less likely to be able to read it. Anyone above that are is pretty much guaranteed to be able to read it.

I guess I misread that Japanese kids would be likely to be able to read romaji before hiragana, and I knew that couldn't be right.

[manganimefan227]

OK, Thank you everyone for your imformation! I think I will just look up a group. I havent been teaching them the kanas and I'm 3 weeks in already, since I've taught them alot so far I think I can spend a week or two on just hiragana! Thank you all so much!!

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by JohnBraden

That would require learning a completely new alphabet as well. Wouldn't that be a bit too much? Or is that preparation for when they learn English?

Not at all. This is not the alphabet that you are thinking of.. .i think. This is romaji.. the romanized version of Japanese letters, so honestly when you take English phonetics out of the picture it is really just about learning 26 new characters and their associated sound in Japanese.. not too much to ask of kids who are learning tons of new kanji all the time anyway, I would think.

[JohnBraden]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Not at all. This is not the alphabet that you are thinking of.. .i think. This is romaji.. the romanized version of Japanese letters, so honestly when you take English phonetics out of the picture it is really just about learning 26 new characters and their associated sound in Japanese.. not too much to ask of kids who are learning tons of new kanji all the time anyway, I would think.

I guess you are right. After all, if they watch any television in Japan or go outside to play, they see the English alphabet every day. As Nyororin explained, and I totally blanked out on that one, they must learn romaji to "translate" those words.

As far as romaji, yes, I do know what it is. I am taking the basic Japanese course at a Japanese cultural society here and the text we use is the Romanized version.

[RealJames]

It often amazes me how kids here learn romaji, hiragana, katakana, a slew of kanji with all their on and kun readings and stroke orders etc, and the usual subjects math, science, etc.

I've heard that this kind of training for the brain opens up communication within the brain that is somewhat dormant in westerners. It makes sense, but I'm no neuroscientist.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by RealJames

It often amazes me how kids here learn romaji, hiragana, katakana, a slew of kanji with all their on and kun readings and stroke orders etc, and the usual subjects math, science, etc.

I've heard that this kind of training for the brain opens up communication within the brain that is somewhat dormant in westerners. It makes sense, but I'm no neuroscientist.

communication that is dormant with westerners.. i wish you knew more, this sounds like an interesting topic.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

communication that is dormant with westerners.. i wish you knew more, this sounds like an interesting topic.

I meant neural pathways, the phrase didn't come to mind while I was writing the last post.

I should check it out more, maybe after dinner!

[steven]

I think to compare one small of that aspect of what you're talking about James, to English might give some insight on what (I think) you're getting at.

With kanji, you usually see them in pairs to make up a word... so a lot of words consist of at least two concepts to give them their meaning. The other day I had a funny conversation where I was talking about 'karate chops' with someone... and that person jokingly said "shutou". I probably did the 'huh' face for a second, to which they replied "shu" as in "te"(手)... and then I concluded it with, "tou" as in "katana" (刀). So by hearing a word you can kind of imagine the kanji. And by understanding the kanji you can imagine (sometimes it can be quite a leap) the meaning. In this case, I perceived 手 as hand and 刀 as like a sword or a blade or whatever. Of course it's like one way of saying 'karate chop'... or like one of those James Bond-esque karate chops.

I think while understanding the roots of English words, a lot of the time that root/modern meaning connection seldom comes into play. You have words that are similar which you can connect, like 'commercial, commerce, commence, communicate, computer, compare, etc.' They all have that 'com' thing going for them so you know they're (or may be) related. I think most English speakers might not give a damn though and don't think about it like Japanese people do with Kanji. However, I've noticed that other European languages share some similar words/word roots (it's a bit late, so excuse my lack of the proper words)... so I think that maybe multilingual Europeans might exercise a similar part of their brain in that respect.

Even though I tried to think about the true meanings of words when all I could speak was English, I never felt my brain work the way it does when I think about kanji (it could just be me though!).

And James, about kids having to learn a whole bunch... I think it comes natural a lot of the time. I think you could almost think of it completely differently... maybe NOT having kanji is harder. I mean, thinking of the real meanings of some English words will get you no where fast. If you think about English from a native Japanese speaker's perspective... all those different pronunciations (word stresses etc) must seem impossible. (think about 'photograph, photography, photon, etc'.) I mean, sure you sometimes get a native speaker who will say a word kind of funny... or maybe a region that says things differently than another... but I think as a native learning that kind of stuff (like all kinds of pronunciation/stresses) is not too different from learning kanji/stroke order/Chinese or Japanese readings. It's one of those things that once you have the basics down, you get that snowball effect going. That's my take on the kanji aspect of what you were talking about is anyways.