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08-21-2011, 11:05 PM
Here in the US, the armed services is an option for those who are not well off financially, since they provide for the soldiers room and board and a decent pay for their service. They are also given the chance to further their education through grants and also while they serve. They are not drafted, but for some, it's the only recourse available. When they get sent overseas to fight, they do it because they are ordered to, not because they want to. When I joined the USAF, I knew full well we could go to war with the USSR, but we weren't really thinking we'd go to war. So when people thank the troops, they are thanking them for the sacrifice of leaving their families behind and going to a conflict overseas they themselves may not agree with.
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08-21-2011, 11:22 PM
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But Hollywood do own all of the UK's multiplexes and not all British films get shown. So I'm never gonna go to a multiplex. But then I do like that Americans are slightly more optimistic,and I suppose we're more like them,Australia,Japan than the rest of Europe. (I'm not about to be racist to the rest of Europe! I do like cheese.)
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08-21-2011, 11:44 PM
If soldiers are doing their job to protect a country, they should stay at their country like Japan does and PROTECT it. Fighting in another country has nothing to do with protection, but with agression and making the lives of other people a living hell. And 'protection' isn't the only reason your goverment is waging wars.
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We live in uncertain times. The world changes fast: new powers are emerging and the West seems to be losing her omnipotence. Whether peace has a future, depends on whether we are willing to jump over our own shadow of self-interest and to open ourselfs up for a world where every country can come into its own. If we don't do that, peace has no future. But I don't believe in that.
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08-21-2011, 11:49 PM
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However, the soldiers, knowing this, still fight and sacrifice just as much as those they have may killed. America is not evil, its not good. I would appreciate you know banging on it, thanks.
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08-22-2011, 12:08 AM
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And Quote:
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08-22-2011, 12:11 AM
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08-22-2011, 12:50 AM
I don't really have any strong ties to America, although I was born there. It has been far too long since I lived there and I have never lived there as an adult. It sort offers assigned to the "world of childhood" in my psyche...
That said - I still do feel that it is proper to give soldiers respect. Not because I support what they are doing or have done. Not because I want them to kill. Not because I support the decisions of the US government. But rather because a) they have volunteered for a position that takes them away from home and family, b) they have basically volunteered their life, and c) someone needs to do the job, and I do not want it to be me. Going to fight in other countries, etc, is a government decision. Soldiers themselves are necessary for defense. They are not the ones who should receive the criticism for the choices made by the government. As a soldier - a necessary position for which they have volunteered - they have no real choice but to follow orders. I don't think their personal philosophy plays much into it. Even if they are doing something they personally do not agree with, I still feel they deserve respect at the very least for volunteering. This goes for all volunteer military forces, not just that of the US.
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08-22-2011, 03:56 AM
I'm American, and proud of it. I guess I would be "Tea Party". I'm also a vet and proud of that too. I was sent to Germany for 6 months dureing desert storm, was two weeks from going to Iraq but then it ended. MY brother has been to several places in the Middle east dureing the last 10 years includeing bagdad, but he never left the base.
Americans are no where near as patriotic as they were 60 years ago, wich is a shame really, been influenced by Europe too much after WW2. Still, most Americans believe we have the best model of self government that has ever been created to date. So yes, we do think we are number 1. Other's can disagree, that's fine, I'm not going to get all up in your grill about it if you do. Plus, I can agree that the US has lost much of what it was orgianlly founded on. That many of our guiding princeables have been overshadowed by Washington DC. The Federal government has gotten out of controle and almost acts as a seperate entity all together. There are almost two USA's now, the normal one where the citizens live and the Fed, who seems to be seperated from us. No Bobby, it isn't just Bush, it's the whole Federal system, DC is out of balance with the states. Generally speaking the Consitution is very strict about war and when the US can deploy troops. DC has not declared a war since 1941. Idealy in America you have an individual right to live and seek success with out government interference. All the government is supposed to do is protect you from others trying to take that right away. Here, everyone can become rich through hard work and dedication. There is no cast system, you are free to succeed or fail on your own merit. That's what the constitution states and generally we try to live by it. True it's been difficult, even fought a civil war over it that killed over 600,000. That's the most deaths due to war in any American engagement. But we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men (women included, had to fight over that too) are created equal, with certain enailable rights, endowed by thier creator, amoung them Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Give me Liberty or give me death, it's not just a motto here.
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08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
There is certainly patriotism in Japan but it is something that they are keenly aware can be very detrimental to society. Personally I think patriotism is rarely, if ever, a good thing. Mainly because it's such a thin line between patriotism and nationalism. It doesn't take much to use patriotism and turn into something very ugly. A bit like what would happen if the tea party nutters in the US ever got into power
 Patriotism is based on pride and as I have discussed previously pride is almost always a bad thing. And even though pretty much every religion out there warns against pride for some reason we almost universally encourage it. As you know I'm not religious at all but even I'll admit they occasionally have some good points. And warning against pride is definitely a good point. Why is pride pretty much always a bad thing and why do almost all of the worlds' religions warn against it? Because you can't have pride without comparison. It is impossible. So for instance you can only be proud to be American or Japanese by comparing your country to other countries. You can only be proud of yourself by comparison to others. You can only be proud of your child if you compare to other children. As soon as you start taking this step of comparison you start down the very slippery slope of thinking your country, your culture, your people, your children, etc are better than others. And this is where patriotism normally leads. To people thinking their country is better than other countries. Their people and culture are better than other peoples and cultures. When you think of other peoples, nations and cultures as lesser to yours it allows you to do things to those people that you wouldn't do if you considered them as equals. It's what allowed Hitler to commit such incredible atrocities. It's what allowed the Japanese to commit such horrendous crimes against others in Asia. Look at the lead up to almost any war. The aggressor always stirs up patriotism and national pride beforehand. I think in Japan they've learned their lesson on national pride and at least for the moment there's enough people left who remember how destructive it can be to keep it in check. In the future? Who knows...
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