Patriotism

[Gokiburi]

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
(Edward Abbey)

[DragonNL]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Going to fight in other countries, etc, is a government decision. Soldiers themselves are necessary for defense. They are not the ones who should receive the criticism for the choices made by the government. As a soldier - a necessary position for which they have volunteered - they have no real choice but to follow orders. I don't think their personal philosophy plays much into it.
Even if they are doing something they personally do not agree with, I still feel they deserve respect at the very least for volunteering.

In my book as soon as you start killing, regardless of your intensions, the only thing you deserve is jailtime. Certainly not respect. It doesn't matter who you are, everybody always has at least 2 choices. Soldiers can also say, 'No I'm not going to kill, screw the goverment!' But they're not doing that.
A lot of soldiers are not that much different than terrorists.

[Gokiburi]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Generally speaking the Consitution is very strict about war and when the US can deploy troops. DC has not declared a war since 1941.

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, passing mention of Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Afghanistan. Row upon row upon row of names on black marble slabs, listed as KIA or MIA. Name after name after name of men and women who paid the ultimate price. Then there are the less fortunate ones, being 'only' maimed and crippled in body and soul they don't qualify for having their names engraved....

Mr. Constitution fast asleep at the helm ? Or is Mr. Constitution among the casualties already ?

[Ryzorian]

That's what I was saying Gokiburi, the Federal Government has completely ignored the constitutional mandates that are to keep it in check. So yes, I would go with the idea that the US consitution is one of the casualties.

Gonative; The tea party are not nutjobbers, the US would be far better off and so would the rest of the world if they won. They want to stop spending, stop stupid taxes and stop getting involved in evey other country's buisiness and mind our own.

Are they patriotic? damn straight, but they think patriotism means takeing America back to it's roots, back to before WW2 and perhaps before the 19th century. When honesty, faith in God, hard work and discipline were important.

No, I don't mean get rid of modern era advancement. I mean get back to good ol constitutional government of the people, by the people and for the people.

[GoNative]

Ryzorian the tea party nutters are certainly a natural progression of the dumbing down of America. Simple people who believe that there are simple solutions to everything. Of course there are not but I can see why they'd appeal to someone like yourself. Simple, credulous and gullible minds will be attracted to the tea party like moths to a flame.

[Ryzorian]

You are mis informed here Gonative, The tea party is highly educated. I happen to be a college grad who studied The Prince in government class. My father, who is also tea party, was a professor for 17 years. He taught Micro biology, human anatomy and genetics.

Simple solutions are the best solutions. If it's raining, and you don't like getting wet, go inside. Only liberal elitists think some convoluted manual they wrote, is needed to help explain how to live through some humanistic 12 step program they invented for everybody else. The irony is that they never have to live by it, just everybody else does.

[GoNative]

The Bloomberg National Poll of adults 18 and over showed that 40% of Tea Party supporters are 55 or older, compared with 32% of all poll respondents; 79% are white, 61% are men and 44% identify as "born-again Christians",[76

So mostly made up of old white guys who believe in religious fairytales.

An October 2010 Washington Post canvass of 647 local Tea Party organizers asked "which national figure best represents your groups?" and got the following responses: no one 34%, Sarah Palin 14%, Glenn Beck 7%, Jim DeMint 6%, Ron Paul 6%, Michele Bachmann 4%

And if they have to choose someone who best represents their groups they'd choose Sarah Palin??? LOL!! Yeah she's a real beacon of hope for the intelligentsia of America! LOL

And they are still calling for tax cuts even though the debt issue in the US is getting ridiculous. Nutters. Religious nutters at that. Last thing we need in the world at the moment is more religious nutters.

[evanny]

Originally Posted by Kayci

Government and soldiers are separate because the soldier in my opinion, knowing whether its right or wrong, is willing to take the fall for the cowards in power.

This is stupid. unless you are a general, you won't give a fuck about government. that it just BS they say on camera "we are here (in iraq) to protect the way of americans, and to bring our democracy to these monkeys"
actual there are only 2 reason why average american soldier is there "i come from low income family, i have repeated 9th grade 3 times and haven't got a chance for a job anywhere."
or "those fuckers took down my towers and my short temper tells me to go and kill some people"


my country has sent only like some 125+ special soldiers. by special i mean - they were ready to kill each other for a chance to go there, because it pays really well if they do get to go. so only the best were sent - and yes, even thou they all have university diploma (most soldiers have, unless you do you can't achieve anything in army here), it still pays better.. its like for immigrants going to another country to earn for the family.

[Kayci]

Originally Posted by evanny

This is stupid. unless you are a general, you won't give a fuck about government. that it just BS they say on camera "we are here (in iraq) to protect the way of americans, and to bring our democracy to these monkeys"
actual there are only 2 reason why average american soldier is there "i come from low income family, i have repeated 9th grade 3 times and haven't got a chance for a job anywhere."
or "those fuckers took down my towers and my short temper tells me to go and kill some people"


my country has sent only like some 125+ special soldiers. by special i mean - they were ready to kill each other for a chance to go there, because it pays really well if they do get to go. so only the best were sent - and yes, even thou they all have university diploma (most soldiers have, unless you do you can't achieve anything in army here), it still pays better.. its like for immigrants going to another country to earn for the family.

Again, if you dont live there, dont bash it. Its one thing to disagree, its another to feel that your opinion about a country that you are not part of is automatically correct.
America is not the greatest, I will always admit that, but neither is any other country in the world.

[evanny]

it isn't much as bashing as simply making you see that their motivation is different than you think. if you think it is wrong to enlist and go to war just to feed your family and to hope for future education afterwards - then it was bashing. however bashing in your point of you.

i don't care what their reasons really are for doing it. people kill each other over a loaf of bread also, so in comparison it is not that bad.