Japanese Only!

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ozkai

I walked into a small very old wooden jewellery shop in Tawaramoto Nara.

I called out "Sumimasen" I wanted to enquire about a new watch battery.

the old geezer walked out and said, "Hai" "Gaijin-Gaijin, Out-Out".

That was the only time for me. I found it funny

My US colleague also had the same experience by an old lady in an old Nara Town. He went into a smal video shop.

It's common in Japan to discriminate against foreigners. That is certainly not a secret.

Six years, I saw a lot..

Onsen towns are the worst.

Then of course Japanese are also discriminated against. Take Barukim people. These were the animals they did the dirty jobs.

However, I guess if Japanese, it just becomes normal to discriminate. If you grow up with something you are taught, what esle do ya need to know.

That is such a misleading post for those that have never been to Japan. I am starting to question your motives by posting here, too.

Two experiences propagated by elderly shop owners does not a nation make.

Just curious, did these shops have "No gaijin" signs outside?

Statements like "if Japanese it just becomes normal to discriminate" are based on what?

It sounds like that in six years you saw a 10,000 times more discrimination than I did in three. So I wonder, could it be simply being a gaijin isn't the only factor in being "discriminated against"?

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by MMM

That is such a misleading post for those that have never been to Japan. I am starting to question your motives by posting here, too.

Two experiences propagated by elderly shop owners does not a nation make.

Just curious, did these shops have "No gaijin" signs outside?

Statements like "if Japanese it just becomes normal to discriminate" are based on what?

It sounds like that in six years you saw a 10,000 times more discrimination than I did in three. So I wonder, could it be simply being a gaijin isn't the only factor in being "discriminated against"?

Your comments make you sound as if you are working for the anti discrimination lobby!

I've never personally seen a shop in Japan with a "No foreigner" sign on, but their are plenty over the web.

I'm not against discrimination in Japan as far as long as it's not connected to ignorance.

Being called a "Gaijin" and pushed out of a store is hardly anti discrimination.

Like I said, discrimination goes back a long time in Japanese history.

I worked on an information booklet in English with my American colleague for the Nara prefectural government on discrimination to assist those affected by it.

Are you telling me the Japanese government knowing it as FACT, means that it is not?

Another example is the "Koseki Tohon". It's similar to a family certificate, birth, marriage all included.

I'm sorry if it offends you but it's not I who makes the laws.

here's some information for you to ponder.

The “Koseki” simultaneously fills the function of birth certificates, death certificates, marriage licenses, and the census in Australia. It is also based on family rather than each individual. Information provided in Koseki is detailed as well as sensitive and makes discrimination possible against such groups as Burakumin or illegitimate children and unwed mothers, for example.

A typical Koseki has one page for the household's parents and their first two children: additional children are recorded on additional pages.
Any changes to this information has to be sealed by an official registrar.

The following items are recorded in the Koseki.
(Law of Family Register, (戸籍法), article 13.)

•Family name and given name
•Date of birth
•Date of records and causes (marriage, death, adoption, etc.)
•Names of the father and the mother and the relation to them
•If adopted, names of the adoptive father and mother
•If married, whether the person is a husband or a wife
•If transferred from another Koseki, the former Koseki
•Registered residence

Burakumin are actually Japanese people, but they were the lower class that did the dirty jobs such as working at abattoirs and cleaning. The local councils in Japan maintain lists of these people for other Japanese to look up if their children have a partner. These people are full Japanese and the same as every other Japanese. These people are heavily discriminated against and join the list of Brazilian’s, Peruvians, Chinese, Korean, and other Caucasian foreigners “Aliens” in Japan. It goes without saying that discrimination in Japan is rife. The topic of “Discrimination” is taboo in Japan

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

It sounds like that in six years you saw a 10,000 times more discrimination than I did in three. So I wonder, could it be simply being a gaijin isn't the only factor in being "discriminated against"?

*clap clap*

I`ve been here *10* and I still have yet to experience active discrimination. I`m sure if I behaved differently things might be different though...

The local councils in Japan maintain lists of these people for other Japanese to look up if their children have a partner.

Wrong. They only contain the information you listed up there. People can look it up and *guess* that someone`s family was of a low caste in the past based on where they lived, or by doing genealogy research, but there is no "database" or list with that information. In fact, maps listing those areas are suppressed by the government to make it harder to find the information.

[ozkai]

Six years for me Nyorin so you are definitely winning! I only that one little hiccup and I can assure you I am a very respected and conseravtive chap. Very much well liked by Japanese in Japan.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ozkai

Your comments make you sound as if you are working for the anti discrimination lobby!

They don't pay for me, but when I see discrimination I will say so.

Originally Posted by ozkai

I've never personally seen a shop in Japan with a "No foreigner" sign on, but their are plenty over the web.

Information you could have posted two posts ago. You lived in Japan for six years and never saw a "No foreigner" sign. Why didn't you include that in your post?

Originally Posted by ozkai

I'm not against discrimination in Japan as far as long as it's not connected to ignorance.

Being called a "Gaijin" and pushed out of a store is hardly anti discrimination.

I was a gaijin the whole time I lived in Japan (and still am), but no one ever needed to push me out of a store. What were you doing that got you kicked out?

Originally Posted by ozkai

Like I said, discrimination goes back a long time in Japanese history.

You make it sound like Japanese society is based in discrimination in a way the rest of the world isn't. Again, I think that is misleading for those that don't know better.

Originally Posted by ozkai

I worked on an information booklet in English with my American colleague for the Nara prefectural government on discrimination to assist those affected by it.

Are you telling me the Japanese government knowing it as FACT, means that it is not?

It is great that discrimination is being tackled by local prefectural governments. Other countries should be so lucky.

Originally Posted by ozkai

Another example is the "Koseki Tohon". It's similar to a family certificate, birth, marriage all included.

I'm sorry if it offends you but it's not I who makes the laws.

here's some information for you to ponder.

Thanks for the Wikipedia paste, but it is not I who is offended at how this island country keeps its census records.

[minimin]

Well to be simple if i was japanese, and a foreigner was in my restaurant not acting accordingly(not following the cultures and customs) i dont think id want them in my restaurant either. Sad those few restaurants and stores base that on some encounters and don't give others a chance but i can see why they wouldnt want others there. I don't think there racist. Though there are racist in every country. Its not really unusual sounding.

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by MMM

I was a gaijin the whole time I lived in Japan (and still am), but no one ever needed to push me out of a store. What were you doing that got you kicked out?

You were lucky.

Wasn't doding anything. The chap was outback, I said excuse me, he came out, I looked at him and before I could say "Battery", he simply staed his intention and used hand movement.

A VERY old city named Tawaramoto.. I wasn't so offended, I thought it was funny as I could see the lighter side, but never the less, it was discrimination based on who I was.

Yes, discrimination is everywhere.. We have plenty here with the Aboriginals..

The Japanese history thing was incredible when I found out as I had no idea.. It was similar to a cast sytem of India..

But I do believe the japanese "Ainu" STILL feel the pinch..

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by ozkai

You were lucky.

Wasn't doding anything. The chap was outback, I said excuse me, he came out, I looked at him and before I could say "Battery", he simply staed his intention and used hand movement.

A VERY old city named Tawaramoto.. I wasn't so offended, I thought it was funny as I could see the lighter side, but never the less, it was discrimination based on who I was.

Yes, discrimination is everywhere.. We have plenty here with the Aboriginals..

The Japanese history thing was incredible when I found out as I had no idea.. It was similar to a cast sytem of India..

But I do believe the japanese "Ainu" STILL feel the pinch..

I wish I could remember the name of the article; sadly I couldn't keep the reader but I read a series of accounts given by minorities living in Japan, such as Koreans and Burakumin, including one guy who wanted to marry his girlfriend and yet hadn't proposed as he was terrified her family would be against it if they found out he was burakumin. Thankfully, I think those accounts were 10 years old or so, and I think thanks to the BLL, things are changing significantly for native minorities in Japan.

The worst racists and stereo-typists are always elderly people though; I used to hear some really bizarre comments from the retirees I coached english conversation.

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by Columbine

I wish I could remember the name of the article; sadly I couldn't keep the reader but I read a series of accounts given by minorities living in Japan, such as Koreans and Burakumin, including one guy who wanted to marry his girlfriend and yet hadn't proposed as he was terrified her family would be against it if they found out he was burakumin. Thankfully, I think those accounts were 10 years old or so, and I think thanks to the BLL, things are changing significantly for native minorities in Japan.

The worst racists and stereo-typists are always elderly people though; I used to hear some really bizarre comments from the retirees I coached english conversation.

Brings back memories!

I had a senior class of 12, average age 60-65 at a school in Nara, I also had a Chinese young student and she worked for WACOAL, a Japanese underwear company.

She volunteered teaching Chinese for free, so in return, she attended free English classes. We had some great discussions as I'm sure you can imagine

I brought up the subject of "Sabetsu" discrmination in Japanese.

It made for great English conversation as the class had never talked about it.

the students were very well travelled and spoke great English.

As you, I found the worst racists to be the old guys.. This was some time back and as you say, things are probably different now..

With the latest generation...

I guess as a white Caucasian, it didn't affect me as much as other's

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by MMM

Thanks for the Wikipedia paste, but it is not I who is offended at how this island country keeps its census records.

You've lost me!

Vacation time