Japanese Only!

[Housetek]

There are some places with the signs "japanese only"

reason
1: Members only places. Foreigners are just visiting, and do not intend on becoming members.

2: Some places are very busy and packed with Japanese customers, its not worth the extra money to hire Bi Lingual workers to cater to foreigners when they are already busy.

No JUST English speaking customers, but many other languages would have to be covered, Hence Japanese only.

Many foreigners come to japan to visit from all over the world.

Can you beleive how frustrating it is when your establishment is busy and your trying to figure out what some one is saying, while your patrons and regular customers are waiting.

Its bad business, your neglecting your regulars trying to decipher what a foreigner is trying to say.

3. Foreigners rarely try to learn Japanese or know any Japanese at all.
Every one knows a bit of english cuz its taught in most countries.
Japanese is not.
making this completely different then U.S or any other english speaking country.

4. Places like onsens do not allow tattoos and serve only japanese people.
there ARE onsens for foreigners.
But mainly foreigners do not know the etiquette for onsens and usualy do something rude or inappropriate. Hence, they have seperate onsens.

5. Tradition
some temples and places have traditions and rules that are known to local Japanese.
Some places just dont want tourist to come by and snap pictures and pose in front of things.
Example. Some temples.

Nothing like having a tourist give the middle finger or a peace sign next to a sacred relic or statute. yea thats really cool and respectful right.

6. Just Etiquette.
In many cultures including japanese, there is just a etiquette and rules to abide by. Tourist do not know this, and its not their faults b/c they were not born here and do not know.

But its not the Establishments responsibility to educate every person from another country about Japanese etiquette.

im not saying ALL tourist or foreigners are like this but a good majority are.

its just Simply easier, and less costly to just have some places Japanese only.

and for every place you see that has a Sign that says "Japanese only"
you'll find hundreds of other places open to every one.



So please
Get over your selves.
Japanese are not racist towards any one.
Stop viewing Japanese and Japan in a negative light.
Don't Judge a place you've never been to.
Learn the rules and etiquette and respect them.
Attempt to know the language a bit.
and dont act like a Douche bag when your here.
Nothing i hate more then people running around japan acting like dicks and saying rude remarks to japanese people cuz they think they dont understand.

Take it upon your self to act respectfully and one by one we can change the views of foreigners and tourist in japan.

Cuz from my personal experience a large percent of tourists act like A-holes.

and makes me sick. cuz it gives the rest of us a bad rep.

and if i see another thread starting with "im afraid to go to japan b/c im "insert race"

i will eat your family



-Htek

[Zagato289]

yes
like i said a while ago in my thread
cuz of those foreigners that cost trouble it makes us look bad.

[Suki]

Yeah there's that video on youtube also (Do You Like Japan? Japan Doesn't Like You!).

I know it's not fully true cause everyone I know who's been to Japan says they're nice people, but Japanese don't usually like having stuff to do with other races. I know people who are graduated in Translation and Interpreting and they can't get a fucking job cause the Japanese won't work with anyone who comes from a different country, so they've been studying Japanese for 5 years in University and what for? Cause they don't seem to be good enough to be trusted, only because they were not born in the same place. That's racism right there.

[Housetek]

Originally Posted by Suki

Yeah there's that video on youtube also (Do You Like Japan? Japan Doesn't Like You!).

I know it's not fully truth cause everyone I know who's been to Japan says they're nice people, but Japanese don't usually like having stuff to do with other races. I know people who are graduated in Translation and Interpreting and they can't get a fucking job cause the Japanese won't work with anyone who comes from a different country, so they've been studying Japanese for 5 years in University and what for? Cause they don't seem to be good enough to be trusted, only because they were not born in the same place. That's racism right there.

If your going to school in Japan or for International relations, be ready to get a job in a company that needs it.

Japanese will generally not hire foreigners for a job that a Fluent Japanese person can do better.

There is a big social part of business that people dont realize. Hence if they have 2 people applying for the same job one japanese one not.

The Japanese person will most times then not be better at socialization and conversation.

Therefore they would be a better candidate for the job. There is a relationship building within the japanese business world, and you have to understand its more safe for a company to choose a Japanese person over a foreigner who studied japanese for 5 years.

There is a big difference between people who speak the language natively and people who learn to speak the language.

And when you understand that, you will see it from the Japanese point of view, rather then the other perspective of just calling them racist.

Your friends need apply to positions that are LOOKING for foreigners.

example

You own a multi million dollar widget company.
Its KEY that your business associates are fluent in the language and know a great deal of business and have schooling in it.

You know that the next worker you higher, must be educated and fluent in the language, but not only that know the right etiquette for interacting with not only co workers but potential clients.

After work employee interaction is all about building trust and team work.

you have 2 applicants
one American, one Japanese.

do you A

Hire the native speaking Japanese person who has gone to school for the same major as the American applicant.

or B
Hire the American who has studied Japanese and businesses? And train him about the etiquette for business interactions.

Note

In Japan and MANY other countries English is a required language to learn.

In America Japanese is an elective in SOME schools.


You call that racism, but i call that a good business choice.

in the high pace world of international and local businesses, there are more important decisions to make then to decide whether to take a risk in hireing a non native speaker


FURTHERMORE

A lil fact about Japanese culture.

Due to server over crowding and the massive amounts of people who DO go to school and look for jobs.

Japan is a place where you'll find people with masters degrees Driving taxis and doing jobs less deserving then their degree.

Talk bout bull shit, you go to school for all your life then 4 years of college to have NO job.

America has job opportunities out the ass!

For christ sake, check out the reasons why Japan is the top suicide nation in the world.

YOU will find a few of my points in there.

No hope for future after pouring your heart and soul into school.

and people are pissed b/c they are giving Japanese people jobs over Foreigners?

once again, get over your selves.


as for the Video mentioned, i saw the video.

And since my 8 trips back to Tokyo, living here and travling around. I've yet to see any of those signs aside from ONE Onsen.

ONE, and it merely said no tattoos. not no foreigners, thats the closest thing i have found.

In order to score a job in japan, you must be ready to do your home work and find places that are hiring foreigners or fluent English speakers.

Dont expect to go into a Japanese company throw your application down and automatically get a job.

There are MANY more applications who are equally qualified but speak the language better.

And when you realize really how important after work socialization is you'll start to understand.

Come to japan

walk out on a Friday night around 10pm.

See how many Salarymen are out and about partying.

THEY ARE BUSINESS ASSOCIATES, its very important to build that kind of closeness and trust with the people you work.

It is easier for Japanese to converse and get along with other Japanese.

This isnt RACISM

once again this is Smart business decisions and they are protecting their interest and on top of that they have pride in their nation to give their own people who desperately NEED jobs a chance to work.

Im very passionate about this topic b/c i've seen the heart break of friends who are japanese who are struggling to just get a job out of school JUST LIKE ME.

and here i am in Japan and i already have job offers back in the states from my applications i sent Months after i graduated.

My friends here are 1 year older and still searching the industry. And best one can land so far is car dealership, as a salesman.

isnt that some shit.

Business administration and Management Major
and mine is busines Sciences.

and with barley even tryin i score a job in the states from over seas.

hes been here and the states at PSU for schooling. and still cant get a job in his own country.

Imagine the US

u know how much bull shit foreigners that come to the U.S have to go through to get a job?

please...

ENglish is by far the most difficult language in the world.

if you dont belive me ask around.

i spent 6 years in ESL learning it, and its not easy.

[Suki]

We're kind of going offtopic, I didn't mean to derail... anyway,

Originally Posted by Housetek

Japanese will generally not hire foreigners for a job that a Fluent Japanese person can do better.

That's right, but what I meant is that there's people here perfectly capable of doing a job just as well as a Japanese, but they still wouldn't hire them cause they don't think it is right to get involved with non-Japanese people when it comes to bussiness.

Originally Posted by Housetek

There is a big difference between people who speak the language natively and people who learn to speak the language.

Sure there is, but we're talking about people who've been studying Japanese intesively for 4 years, they got a degree, you know, they have been prepared to translate, they know how to deal with the language, they're not just some fucking geeks who like the language. Plus let's say you have an English person with a good level of Japanese and who is working for a translation agency, then there's a Japanese one who knows as much English as the native English person knows Japanese. Isn't it the same? A Japanese agency would hire the native Japanese speaker even if his/her level of English weren't as good, when maybe the English person would do better at this particular job.

Originally Posted by Housetek

Your friends need apply to positions that are LOOKING for foreigners.

If my friends want to get a job related to what they've been studying for 4 long years, they need to get their ass out of the country, go to Japan and wait for some non-prejudiced western employers to hire them.

Originally Posted by Housetek

Talk bout bull shit, you go to school for all your life then 4 years of college to have NO job.

America has job opportunities out the ass!

It's not just Japan. And I'm not American so I won't go into that. The thing is nowadays loads of people get to go to University so when they get done with their studies they find no jobs due to the fact that there're not enough for the lot of them. So they end up working at some bar or, as you said, doing jobs which are far underneath their abilities.

So you're saying that any company should make sure people in their own country get a job before employing a foreinger? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck their protectionist politics.

Originally Posted by Housetek

It is easier for Japanese to converse and get along with other Japanese.

This isnt RACISM

Yeah, right. Not racism but that's being close-minded. It's okay if you're looking for someone to have a laugh, you sure will get on better with a person that knows stuff a foreinger wouldn't, but we're talking about work, we're talking about people who are turned down for not being Japanese despite their potential. Sorry but that I cannot put up with. I just don't think that's acting profesionally.

Originally Posted by Housetek

ENglish is by far the most difficult language in the world.

if you dont belive me ask around.

i spent 6 years in ESL learning it, and its not easy.

It's so not! O.O

Maybe for Asian people it is, I dunno, but honestly... you'd be stunned to see how simple it appears to be when you compare it to other languages. No masculine and feminin distinction (ever tried learning German? Jeez), so few verb tenses, not many verb irregularities (which not even English-speakers use properly...), and getting used to the pronunciation won't take you more than a short-term stay in whatever English-speaking country you choose.

When I was 14 I went to England for the first time, stayed there for the whole summer. By that time I had been studying English for about 8 years but I wouldn't say I was totally flunt at it. So when I started to meet people no one would believe I wasn't American (that pissed me off to the fullest xD) because of the way I spoke. Get what a mean? A 14 year-old can get to speak English without much effort cause it's not close to being as difficult as whatever language we're used to.


Well now this is completly off the subject, sorry about that. And don't get me wrong, I really have nothing against the Japanese, I just don't like them being so wary, that's all.

[ButterflyDemise]

I knew Japanese weren't racist, so I was wondering about those signs. Thank you so much for explaining~

[kawaiine]

do you think that maybe its just like america in ways how
people here are aganst people from mexico and stuff coming over here :/
i mean i might get yelled at or something but we are all the same in thinking about people right? DX for some reason people are just mre o.o about it if its not with our country it seems
im from japan and im half white half japanese
its still hard there
i mean i wouldnt say that they are against white people
but they just think that they were brought up there it should be only them who live there
or osmething
i most likely make no sence but i tryed
sorry

[Kaicui]

^lmao housetek w00t !XD

im not even going to lie, my parents dont like brown or black people. My parents r traditionally prejudice

[Housetek]

Note i have friends in NishiMotto food Co., B.A.T *british american tobacco Japan*, Head of administrations for Temple Japan, also a friend who works in japanese pharmaceuticals, and interpretor and foreign consultant.

Also i wrote this huuuge response to this that was more elaborate then my computer crashed. so sorry if im leaving some of my points out, its very late here and im tryin to stay awake to type =p

Originally Posted by Suki

That's right, but what I meant is that there's people here perfectly capable of doing a job just as well as a Japanese, but they still wouldn't hire them cause they don't think it is right to get involved with non-Japanese people when it comes to bussiness.

I am also a foreigner, *Vietnamese American* looking for work in japan so i've been thru this all and talked to my friends who work for Japanese companies or own Japanese companies.

Its all about picking the right companies who are needing foreigners to work for them.

Dont expect to get a job for a japanese company that doesnt intend to go international or has any thing to do with that.

You gotta do your research, find what companies are looking for applicants, and set up a lot of interviews b4 you go to japan and dive into the work industries.


ill explain more in the next quote

Originally Posted by Suki

Sure there is, but we're talking about people who've been studying Japanese intesively for 4 years, they got a degree, you know, they have been prepared to translate, they know how to deal with the language, they're not just some fucking geeks who like the language. Plus let's say you have an English person with a good level of Japanese and who is working for a translation agency, then there's a Japanese one who knows as much English as the native English person knows Japanese. Isn't it the same? A Japanese agency would hire the native Japanese speaker even if his/her level of English weren't as good, when maybe the English person would do better at this particular job.

No its not the same, not at all in fact.
Your completely forgetting about internal networking.

Generally American companies will hire an American who studies japanese, while a Japanese company will hire a Japanese who studied English.

Why
b/c of Internal networking and communication. There i a whole culture of Japan which you dont quite fully understand.

and its very important in the business world.

i will elaborate in the next quote

Originally Posted by Suki

Yeah, right. Not racism but that's being close-minded. It's okay if you're looking for someone to have a laugh, you sure will get on better with a person that knows stuff a foreinger wouldn't, but we're talking about work, we're talking about people who are turned down for not being Japanese despite their potential. Sorry but that I cannot put up with. I just don't think that's acting profesionally.

I dont want to be rude, but you dont fully understand how important it is in japanese CULTURE to socialize after work.

it is their CULTURE, you can knock it if you want, but its somthing thats been in japanese history for hundreds of years and will continue to be there.

Its VERY important to go out with co worker and build relationships with them, its like a "team building" tactic.

You go out on a Friday night around 8-12, just look at how many Salary men are around with their co workers, Look at how many business associates are hanging out with each other.

to the average person, this just looks like a few beers after work.

NO, its more complicated then that.

There is rules and etiquette in how to treat superiors and co workers. Socialization isnt just something to do after work, it is apart of work.

Theres a system of hierarchy, ways to act, and you have to know what kind of language to use, and what is appropriate to say and what is not. These are things taught and formed through out a Japanese persons life.

And also in many asian cultures.

So you have 2 japanese people applying for the same job, one is a lil less qualified but MUCH more socialable and likeable, he will get the job over the other person. They are looking for that drive, and some one who will positively be a good addition to the company, b/c they know over time every one can learn the job, its all about drive and personality.

That is the "X factor" so many people can get a degrees that says they are qualified for this and that, but that Personality is a huge hitter.

We're talking about a Country with a server lack of jobs and many qualified people. its that lil extra bit of sociability which will determine your job.

Originally Posted by Suki

It's not just Japan. And I'm not American so I won't go into that. The thing is nowadays loads of people get to go to University so when they get done with their studies they find no jobs due to the fact that there're not enough for the lot of them. So they end up working at some bar or, as you said, doing jobs which are far underneath their abilities.

So you're saying that any company should make sure people in their own country get a job before employing a foreinger? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck their protectionist politics.

of course not japan, but please realize that Japan is a over populated country such as India, and China.

To the point were lack of jobs and security after school is a Epidemic.

The Japanese business mentality: according to my Mentor Chikako (whose a consultant for the same pharmaceutical company that created Viagra, and also a native Japanese speaker working for an American company.
* also has many years in japanese businesses*)

The Japanese business mentality is, if a Japanese company hires a Japanese person, it is giving another native person a job in a country where jobs are severely lacking.

If they have to denies a foreigner who has the same qualifications to do so, then that person can go to another company and try their luck or search for jobs in their own country.

America has a job SURPLUS, we have TOO many jobs.

While Japan is desperately making new jobs so the unemployment rate wont skyrocket.

Have you ever been to japan?
If you get a chance go to a McDonalds.
See how many people it takes to run a lil McDonalds stand in a JR Station.
about 10!
Imagine seeing 5 people work on the same burger order. One cooking it, One making it, another wrapping it, and another bagging it. Then the cashier handing it to you.

All these things could be done by 2 people. Why is it like this? SEVERE lack of jobs. They make up things for people to do!

now think of the amounts of companies who are flooded by applications every single day.

You say "fuck their protectionist politics"

Come to japan and tell that to the people with medical Degrees who are now driving taxis. Who cant get a job in America b/c they dont speak the language well enough.

Tell that to the thousands of students gambling on spending countless dollars in a college education with very slim security of a job afterwards.

Tell that to the countless bartenders and people with odd jobs in japan with Bachelors and Masters degrees.

Tell that to all the unemployed college graduates who cant get a job they've been studying for, for years, and also cant get a job in America due to their proficiency level in the English language.

boo f'ing hoo, poor foreigners who cant get a job in a country whos already lacking of major jobs for its own people.

boo hoo for the Foreigners who still are fluent in their own language and could find jobs in their own countries.

Were talking about people who go to school in their own country and cant get jobs there, and also have very slim chance of getting jobs else where.

The world isnt fair, but if you look at it from the perspective of the japanese.
Its not the greatest situation to be in when you go to school for a specific job in japan and cant land a position after school.

You may call it closed mindedness so be it.

But the so called protectionist politics, gives Japanese a lil more hope to land a job in their own country.

b/c otherwise they have very few options after that.

Even with all of the lack of jobs, Japanese businesses are still booming and growing, and already i have found 2 possible jobs here.

Originally Posted by Suki

If my friends want to get a job related to what they've been studying for 4 long years, they need to get their ass out of the country, go to Japan and wait for some non-prejudiced western employers to hire them.

also know, if your friend studied to be a interpretor, dont expect to get that job off the bat, unless you got connections or you must be a god damn prodigy.

Japanese business culture has a hierarchy. You want a job in that position?, you best get your ass at a lower position first and learn the company and climb up that ladder.

Fresh face out of college studying for 4 years? im taking he has little to no experience?

hes gonna lose that position to some one who has the same degree that is Japanese but started at a lower position and through the business socialization culture, he will climb the ranks faster.

Advise your friend to find a company they are interested in and applying for a lower level position with clear description of their ambition to reach their true goal.

Know that Japanese Business Culture is different from any other.

[Housetek]

Originally Posted by Suki

It's so not! O.O

Maybe for Asian people it is, I dunno, but honestly... you'd be stunned to see how simple it appears to be when you compare it to other languages. No masculine and feminin distinction (ever tried learning German? Jeez), so few verb tenses, not many verb irregularities (which not even English-speakers use properly...), and getting used to the pronunciation won't take you more than a short-term stay in whatever English-speaking country you choose.

When I was 14 I went to England for the first time, stayed there for the whole summer. By that time I had been studying English for about 8 years but I wouldn't say I was totally flunt at it. So when I started to meet people no one would believe I wasn't American (that pissed me off to the fullest xD) because of the way I spoke. Get what a mean? A 14 year-old can get to speak English without much effort cause it's not close to being as difficult as whatever language we're used to.

well maybe you picked it up easy, and thats great

I myself went thru 6 years of esl learning this backwards language.

and yes compared to most languages, english is spoken backwards.

and i wont argue that German isnt hard.

Many reserach, tests, studies, etc etc. have shown that English and German are the 2 toughest languages in the world to learn.

but English is the international language that is required in most countries, not German.

We have so many rules, pronunciations, punctuations, grammar rules, etc etc.

Also words that sound alike but mean something completely different, and words that are spelled the same but mean completely different things in another context.

According to a article written by James Randerson in NewScientists
English is the most difficult language out of all the Eurpean languages to learn how to read and write.
Also it takes over twice as long to become literate in english compared to other languages.


EXAMPLES
#1
The bandage was wound around the wound.
#2
The farm was used to produce produce.
#3
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
#4
We must polish the Polish furniture.
#5
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
#6
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
#7
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
#8
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
#9
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
#10
I did not object to the object.


I go back to Vietnam often and get bombarded by my family members struggling with the language with really hard to answer questions.

Try explaining the 10 phrases i listed above to some one who doesn't speak the language natively.

Google the subject!
tons of articles about how English is by far one of the most difficult languages to master.

Originally Posted by Suki

Well now this is completly off the subject, sorry about that. And don't get me wrong, I really have nothing against the Japanese, I just don't like them being so wary, that's all.

i respect you and your point of views, you picked my post apart, which is cool. and i did my best to try to not be preachy and educate people more on the Cultural influences in Japanese business sense.

And like i said b4, Companies have much more important business matters to attend to then gambling over a foreign applicant or picking a Japanese applicant who knows more about the Cultural and socialization side of business.

Because socialization is more then it seems, its integrated it self into the businesses and has vast importance.

thank you for reading
-htek