Japanese anime industry being killed by free downloads

[girigiri]

With provisos, MMM is correct, in my opinion.

Where I differ:
Sampling is legitimate up to 3 episodes, rather than just 1. Any more than 3 episodes, I'll at least buy as much as I have watched.

BUT

The claim that anime producers are gouging their audience is quite valid. Fairly prices would not exceed 6000 yen per episode. 24000 per episode is a good reason for shows to be left unwatched, BUT it is no reason to be thieving copies thereof.

As a sop to conscience though, it might be possible to allow that buying only so many episodes as yields a fair return could be excusable - say, watch 4 episodes, buy 1 episode at 24000 yen when a purchase of Japanese releases is forced. Would that I could accede to that idea - my bank balance would be somewhat healthier.

Thankfully, buying Japanese releases usually isn't necessary and Western releases do come at reasonable prices, $120 to $150 for a box set of 24 episodes. (and I'll spend more than that for a legitimate Hong Kong release, simply because of the language options available.)

Wail all they want, the producers of anime simply don't seem to get the concept that people will not readily submit to being gouged.

On a shelf, 1 anime disc with a run time of 40 mins (+ filler, 47 minutes)
Nearby, a live action disc (albeit possibly imported) 80 mins + filler.
Entertainment values are equivalent:
Disc 1: 8000 yen
Disc 2: 4000 yen
Which disc will sell?

[MMM]

I appreciate you acknowledging the possible error in over-"sampling" series, SSJup81.

Originally Posted by Koir

I wasn't aware there was an iron-clad monetary rule a person needs to follow to be considered an anime fan.

Is buying boxsets of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Negima?, Fate/Stay Night, each individual DVD of the "Substitute" arc of Bleach, and Shuffle!, along with single DVDs of Negima? (101 and 201), Slayers the Movie, Full Metal Panic 1 & 2 enough?

MMM, sometimes I get the feeling that you consider anything less than buying every single anime series out there, sight- and knowledge-unseen "stealing", and it doesn't sit well with me.

I don't know why you would think that. I never said anyone should buy any series. I just said people should watch the series through legal means. I listed several ways more than once, and won't again, but buying the DVDs is just one way to enjoy your anime legally and honestly.

But Koir if your point is that I don't consider people who steal anime real fans, then yes, I would agree with that. Real fans wouldn't want to hurt the industry they supposedly love.

Originally Posted by Kyousuke

so basically your saying if your poor, tough luck.

Isn't it like everything else? If I am poor, I can't eat New York steaks every day unless I steal them. If I am poor I cannot drink champagne or fine wine every day without stealing them. Since when is access to entertainment an inalienable right?

It isn't. Anime isn't a right it is is privilege. A lot more work and a lot more people and a lot more money are needed to make an episode of anime than a New York steak, but for some reason people have this idea that anime should be free, even though we should pay for food and drink.

[burkhartdesu]

So, MMM, are you suggesting that you've never downloaded anything illegally?


You saint

[Kyousuke]

Originally Posted by MMM

I appreciate you acknowledging the possible error in over-"sampling" series, SSJup81.



I don't know why you would think that. I never said anyone should buy any series. I just said people should watch the series through legal means. I listed several ways more than once, and won't again, but buying the DVDs is just one way to enjoy your anime legally and honestly.

But Koir if your point is that I don't consider people who steal anime real fans, then yes, I would agree with that. Real fans wouldn't want to hurt the industry they supposedly love.


Isn't it like everything else? If I am poor, I can't eat New York steaks every day unless I steal them. If I am poor I cannot drink champagne or fine wine every day without stealing them. Since when is access to entertainment an inalienable right?

It isn't. Anime isn't a right it is is privilege. A lot more work and a lot more people and a lot more money are needed to make an episode of anime than a New York steak, but for some reason people have this idea that anime should be free, even though we should pay for food and drink.

arent TV programs free to the public? what if you work part time at a place that sells new york steaks in mexico and the only real benefit is that they let you eat food that was left over? i agree with you on the second half of what you said. it takes alot of work and alot of manpower to create one episode of something. for a simple walking scene it could take around 60 to 100 scenes to complete,then color,etc etc. but then again, why is it bad to watch shows that are CURRENTLY running in japan? thats like if i missed last nights episode of Conan O'brian and went onto hulu.com so i can watch it. so if a new episode of Haruhi is airing in japan and i dont feel like spending $1500 on a plane ticket just to watch it on a television that shows it free like any other television program, i can just watch the episode online. Or if you happen to Own a DVD of your favorite show and you feel like watching it online wouldnt that be the same as putting the DVD into your DVD palyer and watching it. maybe your out of town and feel like watching it.

but then some people justify watching it for free without paying for anything by say its the only way to watch it. not true. Hulu is a sponsored site which airs a great amount of television shows alot of Anime also like naruto bleach ,etc. Why not try something like that? a site dedicated to anime which can be legally viewed and is all paid for by advertisements. might sound like hard work to get it up, but rome wasnt built in a day.

[burkhartdesu]

I think if the Anime is Japan exclusive, then it's really a mute point arguing whether or not we should watch it-- even via illegal sharing programs like Bittorent

If the Japanese aren't willing to sell American releases, then power to the people!

[MMM]

Originally Posted by burkhartdesu

So, MMM, are you suggesting that you've never downloaded anything illegally?


You saint

So you are going to ask the question and insult me before I even answer?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Kyousuke

arent TV programs free to the public? what if you work part time at a place that sells new york steaks in mexico and the only real benefit is that they let you eat food that was left over? i agree with you on the second half of what you said. it takes alot of work and alot of manpower to create one episode of something. for a simple walking scene it could take around 60 to 100 scenes to complete,then color,etc etc. but then again, why is it bad to watch shows that are CURRENTLY running in japan? thats like if i missed last nights episode of Conan O'brian and went onto hulu.com so i can watch it. so if a new episode of Haruhi is airing in japan and i dont feel like spending $1500 on a plane ticket just to watch it on a television that shows it free like any other television program, i can just watch the episode online. Or if you happen to Own a DVD of your favorite show and you feel like watching it online wouldnt that be the same as putting the DVD into your DVD palyer and watching it. maybe your out of town and feel like watching it.

but then some people justify watching it for free without paying for anything by say its the only way to watch it. not true. Hulu is a sponsored site which airs a great amount of television shows alot of Anime also like naruto bleach ,etc. Why not try something like that? a site dedicated to anime which can be legally viewed and is all paid for by advertisements. might sound like hard work to get it up, but rome wasnt built in a day.

Hulu has commercials. These pay the studio to provide content to the site. The creators get paid.

Illegal DL from internet does not have commercials. Therefore you get content without the maker getting paid.

And Crunchyroll has started doing what you describe, but it is a pay service. At least they are getting official English subs in practical real time, as the subs are done before the show airs. This is incredible, the best way right now, and it is only 7 dollars a month. But I agree, something like Hulu with commercials would be even better.

[burkhartdesu]

Originally Posted by MMM

So you are going to ask the question and insult me before I even answer?

You know perfectly well what I implied. It's impossible these days to not have, in all your years on the internet, downloaded something 'illegally'

But you still have yet to answer it, which pretty much solidifies my "insult".

[MMM]

Originally Posted by burkhartdesu

You know perfectly well what I implied. It's impossible these days to not have, in all your years on the internet, downloaded something 'illegally'

But you still have yet to answer it, which pretty much solidifies my "insult".

If I say "yes," then that nullifies my argument as I would be a hypocrite. If I say "no" then you have already decided I am a liar, and that nullifies my argument.

I am not interesting in going down a path that nullifies my argument, but I will say I think it is interesting that you would think that it is impossible to use the Internet and not download things illegally. I know many people that can use the Internet just fine without doing illegal things.

[burkhartdesu]

Originally Posted by MMM

If I say "yes," then that nullifies my argument as I would be a hypocrite. If I say "no" then you have already decided I am a liar, and that nullifies my argument.

If you said no, I would give you the benefit of the doubt.

(Though you and I both know the truth )

I think it is interesting that you would think that it is impossible to use the Internet and not download things illegally. I know many people that can use the Internet just fine without doing illegal things

And those people are most definitely senile and incompetent.

But in all seriousness, saving and reusing images from the internet (which nearly everyone has done) is technically 'illegal', unless stated otherwise.