Dolphin Slaughter in Taiji Begins September

[kujiratyan]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Well not a lie.... I should have said commercial whaling.

It was a mistake.

What a mistake！

Mistake
The INTERNATIONAL community has decided that whaling is illegal.

Right answer
IWC　decided that they imposed a moratorium on commercial whaling.

What is The INTERNATIONAL community?
At least,you are NOT INTERNATIONAL community.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by cranks

You are trying to establish an arbitrary ranking among different life forms. Whale is better than pig, pig is better than fish. Only God can establish such an ranking. You are obviously not God.

Arbitrary? I dont think that self awareness is arbitrary. I think its a pretty big deal. As a human I thought you would agree with me.

Originally Posted by cranks

That's not to say we shouldn't be more attached to one species than another. We all like smart mammals than fish and that's a natural, probably a good, emotion. But just because you are more attached to whales than pigs, it doesn't make you a superior being. That attitude is based on the feeling of superiority and it will easily lead to racism. See just how much people started saying "fucking Japs!" regarding the dolphin hunt. It reminds me that Hitler was a vegetarian.

I WOULD agree with this if I didnt have a perfectly GOOD reason to differentiate self aware species with non-aware species.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by kujiratyan

What a mistake！

Mistake
The INTERNATIONAL community has decided that whaling is illegal.

Right answer
IWC　decided that they imposed a moratorium on commercial whaling.

What is The INTERNATIONAL community?
At least,you are NOT INTERNATIONAL community.

Fine.. point taken.

My argument still stands though.

The majority of nations concerned do not want a resumption of commercial whaling.

International water belongs to nobody so consensus about International waters should be respected.

[cranks]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Thanks Cranks. I did that in a rush, so I knew there would be a few big mistakes!

You're welcome. It was really more of a help than a correction

[cranks]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Arbitrary? I dont think that self awareness is arbitrary. I think its a pretty big deal. As a human I thought you would agree with me.

I WOULD agree with this if I didnt have a perfectly GOOD reason to differentiate self aware species with non-aware species.

You've JUUUUSTT said self awareness isn't the only thing. So is it about self-awareness or is there something else? if there IS something else, what is it? Yet again, your logic is extremely expedient.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by evanny

its us who are making fuss because we dont like that things change and we can't control them. thats all it is.

No we're making a fuss as you put it because we can attempt to control the things we do that affect our environment. We can choose to stop hunting species of animals that are endangered. We can stop destroying the last remaining old growth forests of the world. We can makes laws to reduce how much pollution enters the atmosphere, our rivers and oceans.There's many things we can do to mitigate and minimise the damage we are capable of doing to the environment. As probably the only species of animal on the planet that can truly grasp the consequences of our own actions you could certainly argue we have a moral obligation to be responsible in how we affect it.

Unfortunately though greed and wealth creation through much of our history, and continuing unabated today, has been more important to us than any responsibility we may feel towards maintaining the environment we live in. And the excuses we will use to continue being greedy, at almost any expense, are endless. The Taiji dolphin hunt has little if anything to do with culture. It's about making money. Whether or not you think it's ok depends on whether you believe the benefit economically for the town is or isn't worth the damage done to that dolphin population.

[evanny]

Originally Posted by cranks

You've JUUUUSTT said self awareness isn't the only thing. So is it about self-awareness or is there something else? if there IS something else, what is it? Yet again, your logic is extremely expedient.

crank..he himself isnt "aware" of the points we are making. many of these selfridges people have a blind spot for a lot of questions.
like some 10 of mine.

[Ronin4hire]

Look.. I think Im getting a bit worked up about this. So Im just going to state my final thoughts on this and leave it at that.

I usually respect what you say on here cranks so I apologise for the remarks...

Anyway... I care about this issue a lot.

I love Japan but its not perfect. And I cant stand the governments position on whaling and the treatment of animals.

Regarding Dolphins

-They are self aware animals as shown by scientific research.
-This presents a moral dilemma concerning the killing of dolphins.
-Im not saying that the lives of non-aware animals are worthless. Im against factory farming and think that there is an ethical obligation to raise farm animals in conditions which are not stressful. I dont find the eating of these animals inhumane though as long as they are raised in non-stressful conditions.

Regarding whales

-Commercial whaling should be illegal because it will likely lead to the extinction of many whales.
-Japan says it can implement quotas to hunt whales but if you let Japan whale, then you have to let Korea, Denmark, Iceland, Norway etc whale. How long before competition between the industries leads to exceeding quotas? Unfortunately, big business doesnt have a good reputation in complying with regulations.
-The same argument with self awareness can be made with the whales.
-The culture argument is not valid for 3 reasons. Culture is never an excuse in the face of reasoned and logical points. Culture is not static. It is fluid. It is always changing depending on the times. Whaling is also a part of WESTERN history.

Im done. There is my position.

Again.. apologies for losing my cool. I just care passionately about this.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by cranks

You've JUUUUSTT said self awareness isn't the only thing. So is it about self-awareness or is there something else? if there IS something else, what is it? Yet again, your logic is extremely expedient.

How are you confused about my statement.

I said it wasnt the only thing in which we decided whether or not we eat something which was in reply to your assertion that eating babies is OK under that logic.

Its not an arbitrary thing though.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by evanny

crank..he himself isnt "aware" of the points we are making. many of these selfridges people have a blind spot for a lot of questions.
like some 10 of mine.

Im ignoring you for 2 reasons. Replying to cranks is tiring as I have to take apart his posts piece by piece and he is saying a lot of stuff.

The other reason is that you arent really saying anything that profound.