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09-04-2010, 04:18 PM
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And secondly, you just conceded to dolphin hunting. I have noticed that you have never once mentioned a particular species. You have been saying "whales" are self-awere. The truth is Cetacea (Whale and Dolphin) is a large biological group (Order), equivalent of Cetruminantia, which contains species like cow and giraffe. Even the case of possibly the smartest Cetacea, Bottlenose dolphin, whether or not they are self-aware is a controversy. Project Delphis: Evidence of Self-Awareness in the Bottlenose Dolphin Dall's Porpoise is not a species known for their intelligence, at least not as smart as Bottlenose dolphin, and there is no evidence they are self-aware, not to mention Minke whales. As Taichi stopped hunting Bottlenose dolphins, according to your logic, the case is over. There is no issue with Japanese dolphin hunting. 
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09-04-2010, 04:20 PM
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Not about culture? So whatever you and/or the English think is correct because your culture is now MODERN AND RIGHTEOUS while Japan is primitive and full of faults? whale meat has been on a part of the diet in Japan for centuries. And for centuries there was no drop in whale population until the U.S. and Russia killed all the whales just to collect the oil. After the oil was extracted, the huge bodies were dumped back into the sea. This went on for decades using huge factory ships until the whale population plummeted. It's the western cultures that made the current state of affairs not us. Cultures change over time, agreed. So at some point in the future we might stop eating whale meat just as we stopped walking around with swords. But that will be our decision to make, not the decision of foreigners. Two main points: 1) we will do what we want on our land and coastal waters. 2) if other nations want to sell us whale meat or anything else, that's our business. If your against whaling, fine that's your business. We really don't care what you think. In coastal waters, what we do is non of your business. besides,the vast majority of whales aren't even in Japanese waters, and as I understand it Japan was no unique species of whales in its coastal waters. These anti-whalers always try to paint the picture that the worlds whale population all depend on what Japan does of its coastal waters. That's a flat out lie. you can control all the whales you like in all the oceans of the world, just stay out of Japanese waters. killing whales is not human? I agree. but you missed a serious point. Killing any animal is not human. You ever killed a chicken, pig or goat? Any farmer can tell you, the animals know whats happening, to be aware of and recognize danger is a primitive trait of animals. Does it matter? Nature is about eat or be eaten. So, whatever is good enough for the beef is good enough for the whale.
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09-04-2010, 04:29 PM
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The thing is, the animals that we kill are bred and farmed to be eaten in England. They are sustainable. Whales ARE NOT YOURS - they are wild. That's the difference here. That's not to say that terrible, illegal and wrong things happen here, but similarly it doesn't excuse the fact that what Japan is doing is wrong. Killing animals to be eaten is a fact of life and needs to be done. However, we can kill smaller animals in ways that can be considered more humane. This is not to say that it happens all the time, and it's all roses and peaches. But killing a chicken in a very quick manner, and killing a whale which dies very very slowly and painfully, is different. Neither is good, but one is the lesser of two evils. If you found a way to kill whales sustainably and to kill them in a way that is not so inhumane, painful and takes a lot of time, I think people would be less bothered about it. The fact is, it's very difficult/impossible to do this with a creature of this size. EDIT: I see you've edited your post so... here's my edit. Look above, I acknowledged the fact that in some cases, we are no better. I'm not really speaking for England here, I'm speaking for myself and what I know. What's in the past... is the past, and is also wrong. It's still inhumane to kill whales by the methods the Japanese are using... I think that's the point.
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09-04-2010, 04:41 PM
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It IS an issue with culture. Culture not as eating habit. Eating whale meat is not culture for many Japanese people. There are only several regions that have that culture. But still, anti-whaling is extremely unpopular in Japan. What Japanese people are against is the "LOGIC" behind it. Who do you think you are to classify Whale a "BETTER" species than Pig? Last I checked, the only existence that can do it is God. "Culture" is a very important thing, Misa. It's not just music and anime and novels. It includes religious beliefs. Even if I didn't agree with Christian beliefs, or Islam beliefs, I wouldn't dismiss them as "stupid justification". I would try to understand them. Eating animal meat is, of and by itself, cruel. After watching a video of a slaughterhouse of any kind, nobody would casually say "Oh, that's humane. There is no problem killing them" . What many Japanese people are against is the attitude like "Oh, pigs aren't self-aware, so there is no problem eating them". Many Japanese people don't trust people who employ this kind of "LOGIC". It is taken as a manifesto of superiority, and when you think about it, it IS the feeling of superiority that makes one say this. Have you noticed just how many racist remarks and behaviors surfaced around anti-whaling activists?
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09-04-2010, 04:48 PM
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09-04-2010, 05:03 PM
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I stand by point two, Japans whaling industry was sustained until you westerners destroyed the world whale populations. Whatever is in our local waters is ours. I'm tired of going on and on. I acknowledged your points and gave a counter argument for each one, but you haven't even acknowledge that Japan has the right to make its own decisions. That's your fundamental flaw. So one last point about culture. you don't see Asians going around western forums and telling them whats right and wrong or what they should do. This is absolutely cultural.
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09-04-2010, 05:10 PM
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Why are you lumping 'westerners' into one big category? Not all western countries are involved and not all western countries think the same thing. My dad was a farmer so I have as much knowledge as you. You know nothing of the RSPCA or about England so you can't really say either way. Have you even been here? Maybe you are right about there being no 100% humane way... but there are definitely more humane ways than others. You keep trying to justify an act of cruetly by saying 'everyone else does it.' If I wear to stab someone, would it be okay if I said 'other people have done it!' Of course not. The world wouldn't change if it worked like that.
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09-04-2010, 05:32 PM
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09-04-2010, 05:36 PM
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And oh no, I apologise, I didn't mean it was a direct comparison. I just meant that the principle of finding ways to justify bad things is the same, not that the practice is on the same lines at all. (Obviously those things are entirely worse.) I'm sorry if that's what it seemed like I was saying.
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