Dolphin Slaughter in Taiji Begins September

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by siokan

The Cove is a fiction movie.
The clarification cannot be done in my English.

撮影当初は「美しい自然と住民の生活を撮る」と騙し住 民に協力させる。
撮影半ばに反捕鯨団体を名乗り、その後は終始住民を挑 発。「チxコが小さい」等罵った後に怒ったシーン撮影� �撮影妨害に見せかける）。
大量に血が流れてるシーンは築地のマグロ解体を撮影し て繋ぎ合わせてる。
銛を使う漁法は何年も前からやっていない。古い映像を 繋ぎ合わせて利用。
警察に捕まったのは漁師の道具を壊しまくって逮捕。彼 らは保釈金を募ったが保釈金は発生しないゼロ円で保釈 。

反捕鯨活動するのは良いと思うけど遣り口汚いよ（ ´∀｀）

My Japanese is not that good.

cranks? Can you please translate?

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by steven

Unlike your situation, Columbine, I don't think people would be surprised in finding whale meat at the store at all (edit: in my area).

Yeah, perhaps I should clarify that the people who were particularly surprised were all about 18-22yo. I did mention it to some of the old people I knew, and most of them were pretty much "Meh, it's there. I don't buy it personally 'cause I don't like the taste and it reminds me of the war." But I didn't talk about it too much, in case it stirred up a row!

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I have no idea as to whether pigs are self aware or not. If it turns out that they are then I will be against eating pigs too.

Thought it worth mentioning, but ~some~ pigs have been shown to be self-aware. Or at least, they can understand a reflection; they may fail the dot test, but they can rationalize the image of a food bucket in a mirror and realize they need to go around a wall or something, rather than look behind the mirror. But it's only really been tested in a few breeds in a few non-representative locations under informal conditions, so we have no idea how universal this is, or even if it's simply that those pigs were particularly smart. Certainly unlike other self-aware animals, pigs haven't really been shown to exhibit mourning.

[Columbine]

Very very rough translation:

撮影当初は「美しい自然と住民の生活を撮る」と騙し住 民に協力させる。
To start with the producers had the co-operation of the townspeople by saying they were into filming "beautiful nature and the lives of the townspeople"

撮影半ばに反捕鯨団体を名乗り、その後は終始住民を挑 発。「チxコが小さい」等罵った後に怒ったシーン撮影� �撮影妨害に見せかける）。
Half-way through, the film people announced they were with (?) an anti-whaling corporation and after that until the end stirred the townspeople up. (unreadable sentence) In the angry scene after "chikko is small", something something, they pretended filming was disrupted?

大量に血が流れてるシーンは築地のマグロ解体を撮影し て繋ぎ合わせてる。
In the scene with large quantities of flowing blood, they used stock-footage from Tsukiji's tuna processing unit.

銛を使う漁法は何年も前からやっていない。古い映像を 繋ぎ合わせて利用。
Harpoons/gaffs haven't been used for many years. They used old footage as a stop-gap.
警察に捕まったのは漁師の道具を壊しまくって逮捕。
A fisherman caught (using gaffs?) by the police is arrested, and his equipment broken.
彼らは保釈金を募ったが保釈金は発生しないゼロ円で保 釈 。
He is invited to pay bail, but if he can't produce it, then the bail fee is zero.

反捕鯨活動するのは良いと思うけど遣り口汚いよ
I think anti-whaling movements are good, but they are foul-mouthed.

[cranks]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

you fail to see the variety of arguments.

You didn't present any argument except dolphins are poisonous and activists are also against factory farming. How can I fail to see arguments that do not exist?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Its more than just about meat.
As I said before. Opening up commercial whaling would make whales extinct.

"You" said because they are against factory farming, it gives them the right to attack whaling. By "logic", they need to attack factory farming with 30,000 times the resources. In reality, it's the other way around. Why? you said it. There's more than that. It's not just cruelty. As I said, it had nothing to do with the discussion.

Also, you seem to concede that dolphin meat is not considerably more poisonous than other fish. You presented 2 reasons for supporting activists, and now you have none. So again, as I said, you should stop supporting them. If you think logically.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Furthermore, Whaling occurs in INTERNATIONAL waters. The INTERNATIONAL community has decided that whaling is illegal.

Last I checked, Taichi was a Japanese city. And last I checked, Japan is whaling according to the IWC's decisions. The INTERNATIONAL community decided Japan can hunt such and such amount and she does so. The INTERNATIONAL community banned Sea Shepherd from the IWC. And the INTERNATIONAL community is against pirating.

It is the anti-whaling activists that do not follow international conventions and laws. You should attack them instead. Again, if you think logically.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

The culture argument is bullshit. And lets not just say its a Western thing. Countries like Indonesia and Malaysia are against Japan for whaling too... because they recognise the ENVIRONMENTAL impact that commercial whaling would bring.

I don't see many Indonesian or Malaysian among anti-whaling activists. You are purposely mixing up environmental concerns and the issue with anti-whaling activists. I take it as a dishonest argument tactic. I, and many Japanese people, have never opposed to environmental conservation.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

You want to know why the Discovery Channel made Whale wars? Money...

Exactly. And for money, they do anything. That's why many Japanese people don't trust these activists. Because they lie. It's not like Japanese government is as white as an angel, but these activists are really dirty.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I can preach that my morals are better than Taiji peoples morals because I can logically argue against it.
The fact is that Dolphins are intelligent animals that have self-awareness. This makes killing them cruel.
Culture is not a defense for barbaric behaviour against logical reasoning.

OK. By your "logical reasoning", it is OK to eat human baby because their IQ is lower than a dog's. It is also OK to eat mentally retarded. Further more, It is OK to eat people in vegetable state. And THAT'S not barbaric. VERY Interesting to say the least.

By the way, by what "logical reasoning" do you say it is OK to eat something with "self-awareness"? I don't see any logic there.

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by cranks

There's one here if you haven't noticed.

And I don't think it's nobody's business. Japan is a free country and everybody is entitled to express their opinion.

That's not whats really happening. This is about foreigners trying to impose their cultural values on us.

These same foreigners have a closet full of ghosts concerning their own meat industries. Just because they think whales are cute, they have moral ground to tell us what we should do on our own land and coastal waters? That's not free speech.

PS: glad your a native too. I was at AsiaFinest.com were there are no Japanese anymore but a ridicules amount of anti-Japan trolling going on. Came here hoping to find a large Japanese community here.

[kujiratyan]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

The INTERNATIONAL community has decided that whaling is illegal.

WHAT A LIE!!
You should know better.
Just google!

[cranks]

Some corrections on the translation.

撮影半ばに反捕鯨団体を名乗り、その後は終始住民を挑 発。「チxコが小さい」等罵った後に怒ったシーン撮影� � �撮影妨害に見せかける）。
Half-way through, the film people announced they were anti whaling activists and after that until the end purposely provoked the townspeople.
They cussed people with words like "Small dick", and filmed them get angry, and (in the movie) presented that scene as if townspeople were trying to block the filming.

警察に捕まったのは漁師の道具を壊しまくって逮捕。
The activists got arrested (not because they filmed the dolphin hunting but) they broke a lot of fishing gears.

反捕鯨活動するのは良いと思うけど遣り口汚いよ
Anti-whaling movements are fine, but the way they do it is filthy.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by cranks

Some corrections on the translation.
.

Thanks Cranks. I did that in a rush, so I knew there would be a few big mistakes!

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by cranks

You didn't present any argument except dolphins are poisonous and activists are also against factory farming. How can I fail to see arguments that do not exist?

I was referring to you thinking that a few Western governments and the environmentalists are saying the same thing. It seems you see the anti whaling side as a collection of people with the same arguments and agendas where in fact it is a collection of arguments from various people with different agendas. I support ONE of the MANY various anti-whaling positions out there. You and the majority of Japanese make this mistake because the Japanese government and media portrays the whaling issue in this way.

Originally Posted by cranks

"You" said because they are against factory farming, it gives them the right to attack whaling. By "logic", they need to attack factory farming with 30,000 times the resources. In reality, it's the other way around. Why? you said it. There's more than that. It's not just cruelty. As I said, it had nothing to do with the discussion.

You are just paranoid. I see an environmentalist movement who is picking its battles wisely. Furthermore, different organizations have different purposes.

Originally Posted by cranks

Also, you seem to concede that dolphin meat is not considerably more poisonous than other fish. You presented 2 reasons for supporting activists, and now you have none. So again, as I said, you should stop supporting them. If you think logically.

I didnt concede anything. I based my facts on the movie the cove and other websites and articles Ive read. You said it isnt so without giving me any sort of link... I cant prove you wrong... you cant prove me wrong... and it wasnt my main argument.

Originally Posted by cranks

Last I checked, Taichi was a Japanese city. And last I checked, Japan is whaling according to the IWC's decisions. The INTERNATIONAL community decided Japan can hunt such and such amount and she does so. The INTERNATIONAL community banned Sea Shepherd from the IWC. And the INTERNATIONAL community is against pirating.

It is the anti-whaling activists that do not follow international conventions and laws. You should attack them instead. Again, if you think logically.

Now you are just getting confused because we were talking about 2 issues at once. I am not defending the activists completely. But I am on their side as I dont want to see legalization of commercial whaling.

Originally Posted by cranks

I don't see many Indonesian or Malaysian among anti-whaling activists. You are purposely mixing up environmental concerns and the issue with anti-whaling activists. I take it as a dishonest argument tactic. I, and many Japanese people, have never opposed to environmental conservation.

CDNN :: Indonesia Expels Japanese Whaling Ship

Japanese whaling vessel was forced to leave Indonesian waters on Thursday after the government rejected its request to dock at the state-owned PT PAL shipyard in Surabaya, East Java Province, an official said on Thursday.

"We asked the Japanese whaling ship to go and it has left. We don't want to support any illegal fishing," said Sumarto Suharno, head of the East Java Natural Resources Conservation Office, or KSDA.

Originally Posted by cranks

Exactly. And for money, they do anything. That's why many Japanese people don't trust these activists. Because they lie. It's not like Japanese government is as white as an angel, but these activists are really dirty.

Well the Discovery Channel did it for the money. I am pretty sure that Sea Shepherd did it for awareness purposes first and foremost.

Originally Posted by cranks

OK. By your "logical reasoning", it is OK to eat human baby because their IQ is lower than a dog's. It is also OK to eat mentally retarded. Further more, It is OK to eat people in vegetable state. And THAT'S not barbaric. VERY Interesting to say the least.

I am really starting to question your intelligence. Self-awareness is not the ONLY parameter to be considered in the question as to whether or not something should or shouldnt be eaten obviously.

Originally Posted by cranks

By the way, by what "logical reasoning" do you say it is OK to eat something with "self-awareness"? I don't see any logic there.

I see a moral dilemma here. If something is self aware then we

If you dont see a moral dilemma here then why not?

[cranks]

Originally Posted by chiuchimu

That's not whats really happening. This is about foreigners trying to impose their cultural values on us.

These same foreigners have a closet full of ghosts concerning their own meat industries. Just because they think whales are cute, they have moral ground to tell us what we should do on our own land and coastal waters? That's not free speech.

PS: glad your a native too. I was at AsiaFinest.com were there are no Japanese anymore but a ridicules amount of anti-Japan trolling going on. Came here hoping to find a large Japanese community here.

Under the freedom of speech, you can express whatever opinion you want as long as it is not illegal. They can say whatever they want. I'm free to think and say some people are bigoted racists too.

I'm not trying to "win" an argument here. Rather, I am trying to promote understandings. I don't want to sound arrogant but I see how Ronin thinks and where his "logic" is coming from. What I'm trying to do is not to convert him to a whale eater, but to help bring about an understanding that there are cultures that are fundamentally different from your own. To be honest, I don't care that much about dolphins and whales themselves. There is an episode of Southpark called Whale Whore, which pretty much sums up how I feel about the issue.