Tattoo

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by JackIsLost

your examples are just plain outrageous. lets say "no pissing in public" is a standard, should you be able to piss on our streets because you're German? standards are set for everybody, not against a certain person. live with it.

If you can compare a Muslim student wearing a head scarf to pissing in public, I think my point is proved about your own intolerance, and ability to overlook it.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I'd really be surprised if you were against the double pricing. Perhaps you would be, or perhaps you'd have to see it yourself to convert to asiaphile status on this one.

Unfortunatlely I am not the cartoon character you like to think I am, and if you seriously think I would support price gouging foreigners then over the last couple years you have learned nothing about me. You want to paint me into this "asiaphile" paint-by-numbers, but the surprises are going to keep coming because that isn't me.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

That was a joke I found hysterically funny; it isn't my fault if you didn't think so. Don't shoot the comedian.

Funny how inside jokes and sarcasm don't translate so well in text-based forums. Still, talking about beating me in the head with a baseball bat is a "joke" that won't be tolerated again.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Euah... I just don't think you get it.

How does this statement sound: "I recommend negros and people with tattoos stay clear of Japan, as they're intolerant"???

It doesn't sound good, but it's true, and it seems you don't have a problem with that. The reason I say asiaphile is because I know if I used this statement to describe America, you'd be outraged. Yet you've formed a double standard for Japan.

I am so sorry I addressed your question about tattoo culture in Japan. My fault. Lesson learned.

I suppose Japanese people should accept tattoos and wearing shoes inside the house and eating only with forks and spoons and drinking and driving, etc.

I am not sorry, Tenchu, when I say it just doesn't work that way. That doesn't make me an asiaphile, that makes me a realist.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

In my case, I've never really decided to get "inked". I chose to express my religous views through tattoos. I can think of three other cultures who do this; Maori, Thai Buddhist/Muay Thai, and some African thing I dunno what it's called. The simple fact is, Japanese do not tolerate these cultures. Yes, I've an issue with that.

Even those who get meaningless tattoos just for self expression; their self expression and free speech is clearly not tolerated in Japan and gets trampled on.

You still haven't addressed the logic behind the answer to your issue of why tattooed people are not allowed into onsens (yakuza culture).

So now tattoos are "free speech"? Maori, Muay Thai and "some African thing" are not a part of mainstream Japanese culture, so changing the rules for cultures that are wholly or almost in no existence in Japan is backwards logic.

[joeyj]

Most gyms don't allow tattoos there. I'd just try and keep it covered as much as possible. You might be able to get into a sento as I saw a lot of Japanese with tattoos in those (probably some of them were yakuza lol)

[JackIsLost]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

If you can compare a Muslim student wearing a head scarf to pissing in public, I think my point is proved about your own intolerance, and ability to overlook it.

your examples are pretty dimwitted. you are comparing pissing in public to muslim people. i never made that link, i was referring to a WHOLE entire different example. your wits got knocked out of you once too many times in thailand.

this is what i originally said

Originally Posted by JackIsLost

your examples are just plain outrageous. lets say "no pissing in public" is a standard, should you be able to piss on our streets because you're German? standards are set for everybody, not against a certain person. live with it.

you made an example of "schools don't allow muslim people to wear head scarfs" seriously, only the females wear their gourmets that cover their face (schools around here don't restrict them), boys and teenagers don't wear "head scarf" from what you call it, that is your ignorant racist ways shining through. my 3 years of combat tours, never once did i see a child wear a "head scarf" on their head. it's for town leaders, religious leaders, and adults. get a hold of yourself.

another example you gave is no blacks on golf courses? seriously? what the hell

so i was making an entirely new example that was referring to standards, why set the bar a little lower for someone else if that is the standard that should be held for everybody?

answer the bold only please, i know you will nit-pick something else and ignore my main statement.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by MMM

Unfortunatlely I am not the cartoon character you like to think I am, and if you seriously think I would support price gouging foreigners then over the last couple years you have learned nothing about me. You want to paint me into this "asiaphile" paint-by-numbers, but the surprises are going to keep coming because that isn't me.

Well, it really does come as a shock.

I suppose it's a poor assumption. Like, just because someone's gay, it doesn't mean they want to have sex with every man around. I guess you're the same as this.

Originally Posted by MMM

Funny how inside jokes and sarcasm don't translate so well in text-based forums. Still, talking about beating me in the head with a baseball bat is a "joke" that won't be tolerated again.

Oh grow up, old man. Don't make this forum into a pink pillow slumber party.

Originally Posted by MMM

I suppose Japanese people should accept tattoos and wearing shoes inside the house and eating only with forks and spoons and drinking and driving, etc.

I am not sorry, Tenchu, when I say it just doesn't work that way. That doesn't make me an asiaphile, that makes me a realist.

Do you use a desert spoon to eat a main course?

Japanese people use chop-sticks; it's their culture. Other Asians only eat with desert spoons because they had no culture when it came to eating; they used their hands.

Why should they make their house all dirty?

Are these supposed to be serious comebacks? MMM, this isn't the dark ages. Going to Japan is not some valiant quest where you'll have to slay dragons and get enlightened by 1,000 year old Taoist monks on top of cloudy mountains.

We live in the 21st century; immigration and travel are common things. Having such a huge taboo about such a broad range of people is clearly not appropriate in the modern world.

If Japanese are literally too stupid to realize having tattoos has nothing to do with being a gansta outside of their own population, then they clearly need some serious education on foreigners.

Originally Posted by MMM

You still haven't addressed the logic behind the answer to your issue of why tattooed people are not allowed into onsens (yakuza culture).

Well, my understanding is these Japanese tattoos the Yakuza use are very specific and easily identifiable. They're usually on the arms, but can also spread to the chest and back. They're brightly colored and almost always feature a dragon.

There is no way you could confuse the tattoos of a Buddhist monk or Muay Thai fighter, or a Maori with the tattoos of a Yakuza gansta. It's completely unrealistic to say you could confuse them.

Moreover, it is okay to frown upon people who disrespect their parents. However, tribal tattoos and Thai tattoos are exactley the opposite; they're fashioned in a way that idolizes your ancestors, parents and heritage.

In Muay Thai, not only do they have tattoos to respect their ancestors, their outfits are usually have bone fragments of their ancestors or parents if they're passed sewn into them to bring them good luck.

Acknowledging this, you can come to see how stupid it is to say both that it is disrespectful to your parents and also how stupid it is to associate this with criminals.

If they really dismiss people with non Yakuza tattoos, then it shows a great lack of respect and consideration for other people, and their culture. You could even go as far as saying they're also disrespecting that persons tribe (Maori, African), profession and parents (Muay Thai) and religion (Buddhist monks).

Originally Posted by MMM

So now tattoos are "free speech"? Maori, Muay Thai and "some African thing" are not a part of mainstream Japanese culture, so changing the rules for cultures that are wholly or almost in no existence in Japan is backwards logic.

Yes, it's freedom to express yourself without fear of social rejection. These hold very important and significant meanings to some people, and were they to travel, it would be very offensive to them to be excluded from social gatherings because of this.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by joeyj

Most gyms don't allow tattoos there. I'd just try and keep it covered as much as possible. You might be able to get into a sento as I saw a lot of Japanese with tattoos in those (probably some of them were yakuza lol)

Well, you obviously have missed the point of this thread, but you've bought up something else, also:

I guess I can kiss any chance of me learning Sumo goodbye then.

Now do you see how people can be excluded, MMM?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by JackIsLost

you made an example of "schools don't allow muslim people to wear head scarfs" seriously, only the females wear their gourmets that cover their face (schools around here don't restrict them), boys and teenagers don't wear "head scarf" from what you call it, that is your ignorant racist ways shining through. my 3 years of combat tours, never once did i see a child wear a "head scarf" on their head. it's for town leaders, religious leaders, and adults. get a hold of yourself.

Muslim girls start wearing head scarfs sometimes from the age of about 3 or so; they do in Thailand. I live in a very Muslim area.

In this example, I was reffering to Muslim high school girls in France who're being sent home from school for wearing a "religous symbol". The ban also covers stars of David, crosses, funny Jew hats, so on. But only the Muslim girls are the ones who're feeling exploited by the law; it is very important for them.

Originally Posted by JackIsLost

another example you gave is no blacks on golf courses? seriously? what the hell

To this day in America, there exist golf courses which do not allow negros.

Originally Posted by JackIsLost

why set the bar a little lower for someone else if that is the standard that should be held for everybody?

It's called social acceptance; indiscrimination. Obviously, if you live in Japan, you might want to think twice about getting tattoos because you're already aware of the social retardations. But for tourists or people on business runs who have heavy tattoos, they're going to be in for a very big shock at Japanese intolerance in some social settings. It will be unpleasant for them, even to the point where some people are going to have to consider not going to Japan, because their way of life is unacceptable.

[dirtyroboto]

From my understanding of the Japanese issue with tattoos stems from two areas.
The first has been covered in the gang type posts.

The second is a more basic and simple fact. The Japanese feel that only weak minded and those of impure spirit feel the need to deface their body.
It is seen as an overt sign of self mutilation. Like being proud of your failed suicide attempts by showing off your scarred wrists.
Failure to forfill a suicide is a good sign that you are a weak person, just like getting some "good for now" sign scratched onto your body is a good idicator that you are weak and predisposed to bolstering your self image by using a better substitute that you can use to deflect attention away from your issues.

Also it is offensive for other people to look at your tattoos, not everyone need to see what you think is cool.
Just buy the tee shirt, a thing that can be taken off and changed with the season.

As for the muslim issue. The only people with problems concerning this are the muslims. Everyone else is bored to tears with the whining and moaning of this hard done by, and greatly oppressed group (of racist and sexist religious maniacs).

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

To this day in America, there exist golf courses which do not allow negros.

That used to be the case, but name one today if you can. They may not be members in some cases, which discriminates against far more than blacks, but they are allowed to play the courses with others who are members. Personally I find golf an elitest and vile excuse for a sport, but that is just me.

Dirtyroboto brought up an excellent point. There is more to the cultural distaste for tattoos than simply its association with Yakuza.

[Miyavifan]

as for dirtyroboto's post.

I am wondering if it's only musicians who must not feel it's a thing that weak minded people, and those with "impure spirits" do. or if people in the general population might not think that way, also.

I think it's not right to think that way, as me I have tattoos, but I am not weak minded, nor do I have an "impure spirit".