Tattoo

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yes, it's freedom to express yourself without fear of social rejection. These hold very important and significant meanings to some people, and were they to travel, it would be very offensive to them to be excluded from social gatherings because of this.

When you choose to ink yourself you are absolutely inserting yourself into the realm of social rejection. You are rejecting the norm and entering a different social realm.

Tenchu, when I explain the Japanese cultural perspective, it doesn't mean it is MY perspective. Just so we are clear.

And Japanese do understand there are tattoo cultures outside their own...very much so. I said that.

However, you are the owner of a public bath. Your public bath doesn't allow tattoos simply to keep yakuza baddies out. In walks a white guy with Muay Thai tattoos and says "I am not yakuza. I want to use your public bath." Do you let him in?

No. You do not. Because once word gets back to the local yakuza they let the white guy with tattoos in, the yakuza will be screaming "discrimination" and making a lot of unwanted noise.

It isn't racism or discrimination, but a desire to keep one's business from going bankrupt.

[samurai007]

Tenchu, if you think MMM is a mindless Japanophile, you obviously missed the "I DON'T want to live in Japan" thread...

[JackIsLost]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

It's called social acceptance; indiscrimination. Obviously, if you live in Japan, you might want to think twice about getting tattoos because you're already aware of the social retardations. But for tourists or people on business runs who have heavy tattoos, they're going to be in for a very big shock at Japanese intolerance in some social settings. It will be unpleasant for them, even to the point where some people are going to have to consider not going to Japan, because their way of life is unacceptable.

can you explain a situation where japanese intolerance was so high it would cause a tourist to feel so unpleasant, to the point where they have to consider not going to japan? have you been discriminated in japan? or you just imagining that "if i was in japan i would be highly discriminated"

as MMM stated earlier, businesses have to keep a standard, foreign traveler or not, or the businesses such as onsens would be discriminating towards their own. i couldn't have said it better than MMM.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by JackIsLost

can you explain a situation where japanese intolerance was so high it would cause a tourist to feel so unpleasant, to the point where they have to consider not going to japan? have you been discriminated in japan? or you just imagining that "if i was in japan i would be highly discriminated"

I'm covered in tattoos that represent my family, religion, profession and self; all with great pride. these tattoos are placed mostly all over my torso, but also my shins, thighs, and upper arms.

I'm proud to be a boxer. I'm proud to be a soldier. I'm proud of my faith. I'm proud of my family. I'm proud of who I am.

Is there any chance left in the universe I will ever be accepted into a Sumo stable?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by MMM

When you choose to ink yourself you are absolutely inserting yourself into the realm of social rejection. You are rejecting the norm and entering a different social realm.

Tenchu, when I explain the Japanese cultural perspective, it doesn't mean it is MY perspective. Just so we are clear.

And Japanese do understand there are tattoo cultures outside their own...very much so. I said that.

However, you are the owner of a public bath. Your public bath doesn't allow tattoos simply to keep yakuza baddies out. In walks a white guy with Muay Thai tattoos and says "I am not yakuza. I want to use your public bath." Do you let him in?

No. You do not. Because once word gets back to the local yakuza they let the white guy with tattoos in, the yakuza will be screaming "discrimination" and making a lot of unwanted noise.

It isn't racism or discrimination, but a desire to keep one's business from going bankrupt.

Yes, you're right. So, acknowledging this, why won't you accept Japanese are a bunch of racist ***** ****** ********** ********** ************ [many swear words]?

I'm guessing I'm at the stage where I could make a thread "10 reasons why you hate the Japanese".

I admired an ancient culture of Bushido and Samurai, but that's long gone. What's left today is a bunch of socially deprived men, perverted, morally corrupt (don't let me go into their porn realm), brainwashing (all of their business revolve around basic concepts of psychology that amount to brainwashing in order to sell more), and just plain racist people.

Sure, their food is good (once you pick the endangered species out). But I'm coming to find the bad outweighs the good, and they've a deep underlying social problems that retard themselves from the rest of the advanced world.

At first, they come off as a civilization mecca in the heart of Asia, but it seems they're far from it. Even as bad as Thailand.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by MMM

However, you are the owner of a public bath. Your public bath doesn't allow tattoos simply to keep yakuza baddies out. In walks a white guy with Muay Thai tattoos and says "I am not yakuza. I want to use your public bath." Do you let him in?

You're the owner of a public bar in America.

A black guy comes in and pulls a gun on you.

Place a sign on the door "No Niggers will be Served".

It won't stick.

[JackIsLost]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yes, you're right. So, acknowledging this, why won't you accept Japanese are a bunch of racist ***** ****** ********** ********** ************ [many swear words]?

people with tattoo's are a whole new race now? they're not racist, that's just how their culture is. it's hundreds of years old and they are built around how things were done in the past. it will take time to change tenchu.

[JackIsLost]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You're the owner of a public bar in America.

A black guy comes in and pulls a gun on you.

Place a sign on the door "No Niggers will be Served".

It won't stick.

again... people with tattoo's are not a race. alter your example a little more to make more sense.

[JackIsLost]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I'm covered in tattoos that represent my family, religion, profession and self; all with great pride. these tattoos are placed mostly all over my torso, but also my shins, thighs, and upper arms.

I'm proud to be a boxer. I'm proud to be a soldier. I'm proud of my faith. I'm proud of my family. I'm proud of who I am.

Is there any chance left in the universe I will ever be accepted into a Sumo stable?

Tenchu, you can't have the best of both worlds. that's just life. if you really had the desire to be a sumo (which you don't) then you would not get tattoo's because of your drive to succeed as a sumo. i still do not see how you, as a tourist, will have so much hart ache visiting this country that you should not visit. it's a path that you walked, you can't walk two roads at the same time. succeed in the one you took.

still haven't answered my question
Originally Posted by JackIsLost View Post
can you explain a situation where japanese intolerance was so high it would cause a tourist to feel so unpleasant, to the point where they have to consider not going to japan? have you been discriminated in japan? or you just imagining that "if i was in japan i would be highly discriminated"

sorry for the crappy posting and quoting, i'm trying to talk to multiple people over different mediums

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MMM

When you choose to ink yourself you are absolutely inserting yourself into the realm of social rejection. You are rejecting the norm and entering a different social realm.

That is a major point here. Having a tattoo is considered unacceptable, or at least degrading in many societies, not just in Japan.

It is a choice one makes and has to live with. If one was not aware of that at the time the choice was made that is unfortunate. Because this is rarely considered by teenagers wanting to follow the trend most places in the U.S. have passed laws making illegal to tattoo anyone who is not a legal adult without written permission of a parent or guardian.