Train travel fares - advice needed please

[tstorey]

Hello there,
We are a family of 4, (2 children aged 6 and 7 yrs), travelling Osaka (2nights), Kyoto (3 nights), Takayama (2 nights), Hakone (3 nights), Tokyo (4 nights) in January. YAY, I can't wait!!!

I am trying to look up costs for our rail fares between these destinations (using Hyperdia and also the Japan Rail website). I am trying to work out the the most economical/cheapest way to purchase the fares.

I have become confused when searching the journey Kyoto to Takayama (by train via Nagoya seems to be the best way), and then also the journey from Takayama to Hakone (Odawara), which also seems to need to go via Nagoya.

The fares I have found are: Kyoto to Takayama - about Y8970 per adult, and then Takayama to Hakone Y11950 each (with the children being a bit less).

This seems very high and I'm not sure if I'm looking it up correctly, or if maybe we should purchase some return tickets (eg: the Nagoya to Taka return) and if this may work out cheaper. But can the return ticket be used after a 3 day break or does it have to be used the same day? Where do I find return prices?

I have also been told previously on another forum that the JR pass will not work out cheaper for us because we are flying into Osaka, doing the journey above and then flying out of Tokyo, so there is no return journey. Do you think this is correct?

Any advice or websites you can offer would be very much appreciated.
Thank you!
Tiff

[Sangetsu]

You should check for bus services, they are the best (and least expensive) way to get from the kansai area to the kanto area. There are usually highway bus stops in front of the major train stations (Osaka, Kyoto, Hakone, and Tokyo). You can try Keisei bus lines, though there are several others as well.

[tstorey]

Thank you for your response, I appreciate the advice. I am a little worried about the extra time that the bus takes, with the 2 children possibly losing patience and annoying other people around us.
What do you think about hiring a car to self-drive Kyoto to Takayama and then Takayama to Hakone? I found a company that will hire us a medium sized car for about Y32765 for 3 1/2 days, including the fee for dropping the car off in Hakone. We have driven in Thailand, the UK and Malaysia before but I'm not sure how the experience in Japan would compare. I'm also nto sure what teh road from Nagoya to Takayama would be like. Does it possibly become closed due to snow? If this happens, does the train still operate?
Any other advice and info you can offer is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[samurai007]

I'm not sure if the mountain route is open during winter, but I took a bus from Takayama to Kamikochi, hiked in a valley in the Japan Alps, and then took another bus the rest of the way to Matsumoto. The next day I saw Mastumoto Castle (one of the best in Japan!), and then took a train straight down toward Tokyo (and I'm sure there's a way to change trains to get to Hakone along the way). That route saves all the backtracking to Nagoya, and gives you several great experiences along the way! But the Japan Alps bus route may be closed due to snow, I'm not sure. Check it out though.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by tstorey

Thank you for your response, I appreciate the advice. I am a little worried about the extra time that the bus takes, with the 2 children possibly losing patience and annoying other people around us.
What do you think about hiring a car to self-drive Kyoto to Takayama and then Takayama to Hakone? I found a company that will hire us a medium sized car for about Y32765 for 3 1/2 days, including the fee for dropping the car off in Hakone. We have driven in Thailand, the UK and Malaysia before but I'm not sure how the experience in Japan would compare. I'm also nto sure what teh road from Nagoya to Takayama would be like. Does it possibly become closed due to snow? If this happens, does the train still operate?
Any other advice and info you can offer is greatly appreciated, thanks!

I think we talked about this on another thread recently, but gasoline is very expensive the highways are not free. A car will be as fast as the bus. Long distance travel within Japan is either cheap and uncomfortable, or expensive, fast and comfortable.

I find just riding in a car in Japan very nerve-wracking.

[tstorey]

Thank you all so much.
After adding up car hire (from ToCoo) including the one way drop off fee, the road tolls, gas etc, it looks like we would only be saving around Y5000 to drive the car. So given that there's a lot more that can go wrong by driving ourselves we've decided to go by train anyway. (The bus journey is just too long for us, I think our kids would go nuts).
It looks like the Ltd. Express Wideview Hida train that leaves from Kyoto (around 8.30am from memory) and goes via Nagoya up to Taka only takes 35 minutes longer than the Nozomi/transfer onto the Ltd Express at Nagoya option anyway, but it is quite a bit cheaper, (saving around $90 Australian) so we're going to do that. Unless any of you have any insider info about that option that would make me reconsider?
Thanks again. We're getting SO excited about this trip now!

[MMM]

Originally Posted by tstorey

Thank you all so much.
After adding up car hire (from ToCoo) including the one way drop off fee, the road tolls, gas etc, it looks like we would only be saving around Y5000 to drive the car. So given that there's a lot more that can go wrong by driving ourselves we've decided to go by train anyway. (The bus journey is just too long for us, I think our kids would go nuts).
It looks like the Ltd. Express Wideview Hida train that leaves from Kyoto (around 8.30am from memory) and goes via Nagoya up to Taka only takes 35 minutes longer than the Nozomi/transfer onto the Ltd Express at Nagoya option anyway, but it is quite a bit cheaper, (saving around $90 Australian) so we're going to do that. Unless any of you have any insider info about that option that would make me reconsider?
Thanks again. We're getting SO excited about this trip now!

I think you are making the right choice.

[stuniq]

The trains (unlike in my country) are a good experience in Japan. It was ridiculous for me - I couldn't stop talking about the transport system when emailing home... so I'd use the trains without a doubt.