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Geisha --- is it art? -
10-15-2008, 09:15 AM
having watched a tv programme about geisha's
and following a long and sometimes heated debate with my girl... i wonder are geisha's REALLY art...or is this a way of patrons justifying spending large sums of money on female company... yes its a great little snap-shot into life in another time.... ...yes it takes a certain amount of work... ...sure the kimono's are very pretty.... but is it ART?? possibly...but if it were then the geisha's themselves would be the art...as aposed to the artist...perhaps the "mother" could be called the artist.. and what i wonder....is art or not....does the popularity of geisha not primarely revolve around the fact that they are pretty dolled up girls? just wondereing what peoples take on this is...some Jopinions would be nice also 
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10-15-2008, 10:28 AM
Putting on a kimono and makeup does not make you a geisha. There are years of training and apprenticeship involved in becoming one, and not all that go through it end up becoming a geisha.
Geisha are taught to dance and sing, to play instruments, and to be good conversationalists. The know every nuance of manners, can recognize even the subtlest emotion, and can put their clients into almost any mood of their choosing. You may not think it an art, but becoming a real geisha takes as much time and effort as getting a university degree. Movies like "Memoirs of a Geisha" are poor examples of exactly what it's like. But then, becoming a geisha will not make you Japanese. I read that "Sayuki", the first foreign geisha, had her application for permanent residency in Japan denied. Despite the fact that she has lived in Japan since she was 15, and has a doctorate in anthropology from Oxford, and is the foremost foreign expert on many things Japanese (including the geisha lifestyle). I was lucky enough last year to meet a group of young girls in Asakusa who were apprenticing to become geisha. My girlfriend had an interesting conversation with them, and we took pictures of each other posing with them, it was a lot of fun.
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10-15-2008, 11:07 AM
i know there is ALOT of work involved...
but i wonder if it is ART... sure its AN art...but the dance's are all very rigid...there is no room for expression.... for me...art is about expressing emotion...a genuine emotion...but for geisha...its about supressing her own emotion.... if someone play's a piece of music...you can hear if they are happy or sad from the way they play it...but with geisha dance etc. it is alway's the same.... to me....it is almost like geisha is moving statue
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10-15-2008, 11:34 AM
but the geisha has NO IMPUT on her performance...
the TEA ceremony...is the TEA ceremony....it HAS to be done in a certain exact way.... an ARTIST....is creative...i see nothing that the geisha's do as creative.. correct me if i am wrong
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10-15-2008, 12:09 PM
Quote:
you have posted the defenition of AN art....art itself...is about the expression of information, emotions and idea's.... i dont see that happeneing with Geshia...i dont see them expressing ANY poart of themselves...... thats why i question wheather it is art...
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10-15-2008, 12:46 PM
hmmm you are talking to someone with an intrinsic knowledge of art here boyo.....trust me on that...damien hurst...i was going to exclusive gallery openings BEFORE he was big....
im not saying that geshia is not a work of art or that the art of the geshia is not AN art... but is the geshia herself an ARTIST?? no...she does not CREATE anything.... and there is a BIG deifference between something that is AN art...and ART you can say: the art of conversation...so is everybody who can talk therefore an artist? meh...no they are not. with regards to geshia it is a grey zone....but again is it not more the Female companionship...and the Status symbol of the geisha that apeals to MEN? geshia's are expensive..and look pretty...just like jewlery.... is the gold bracelet the artist...or the artisan who made it the artist... the geshia are like objects....moulded by the "mother"... so perhaps one could say the "mother" is the artist...and the Miko's and servant girls are but blank canvases hmmmm yes an upside down skateboard could be art...and....so can an upright skateboard...and what about a skateboard that is not even there in the first place?? im a big fan of instelation art art is about the message... and if geshia is compared to renaisance art....would hostess bar be modern art???
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10-15-2008, 01:05 PM
you can call ANYTHING you want...."art"
but there is a big difference between good art...and bad art take the campbells soup tin print....why was that SO amazing... because of the message BEHIND it.... 15 yr old girls.....yes pretty much blank canvass.....not quite...but thier time as Servant girl certainly makes them so....then "mother" paints HER ideas upon the miko.....also your taking a metaphor literally there laddy-boy I think "mother" is artist...Geisha...is canvass but i'm not trying to talk about the nature of art....i already have a full understanding of art.... i am trying to acertain what the status as ART geisha is...because its complex... clearly..singin dancing..tea ceremony..coul;d be grouped under "the arts"...but its the complete lack of creative imput that makes it an interesting position
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10-15-2008, 01:29 PM
indeed...
but would you go as far as calling the geshia an artist? because geshia patrons like to call themselves...patrons of the arts... is that really the case? if you PAY for a geshia....are you supporting the J-art scene....or getting a couple of pretty dolled up girls to massage your ego? surly art is all about new ideas? in geshia...there are no knew ideas...just the old ones... also would by your definition a Hostess not be just as much art as a geshia?? yet hosstess bar customers don't consider themselves patrons of the arts...
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10-15-2008, 01:57 PM
Quote:
and please, PLEASE stop typing like you have Tourette's.  Tyrien.DeviantArt~ As of 08/11/2008 5:33 PM Eastern Standard time I now officially own: Miyavi, Kyo, Yuusuke, Maya, Gou, Aki, Aoi, Jun, Yusa, Jui, Key, Heechul, Yesung, Riku, Kei, Jyou, Satoshi, Takeru, Sin, Teddyloid, ♀Yooh♂, Reo, Tomoya, Tatsuro, Hitsugi, Kyoharu, Takanori Nishikawa, Jay Chou, Hirokai, Die, Kaoru, Shinya, and Toshiya.
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10-15-2008, 02:19 PM
im seeing it in one way?
please expand... but please understand that the nature of art.....is subjective... i started this thread for 2 reasons 1. geshia's have NO creative imput....yet what they do is called art...and while what they do IS art...they themselves are not ARTISTS for someone who knows a bit about art...this is quite an intersting combination...and one that draws many questions.... what is it to be an artist? what is it to be creative? 2. geshia's are all cute girls.....this cannot be ignored!...there is clearly something more to it than JUST art. art is a subjective topic...thus at times....its worth exploring ideas or asking questions that draw towards a certain extreme...this is to validify what one believes...
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