Why do many japanese want to have white skin?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I'm starting to see that on this forum, I'll always fail. At least, in the eyes of its members. I'm not sure, but I think that most of its members are white. Meaning that most of its members have privilege. Like I said, people with privilege will most likely defend racism. Hey, that's the system that allows them to live life in society so brilliantly while people who are oppressed - well, fail.

Just curious, and this is a question for MMM also: have you ever studied race relations? It doesn't matter for which country. Seriously, I'm not trying to put you down, not trying to say "WELL I HAVE SO OMG I'M SMARTER THAN YOU." I'm just curious.

If not, then I really suggest that you do. It's amazing how subtle racism has become. (The most prominent example is the experiment with black children and dolls, and asking them which dolls are prettier, and them replying the white ones.) Like I said before, it's something that effects every nation that has any type of media.

Someone recounted to me a story of them being in Japan and seeing a black girl be called a slave in an argument. I personally feel that people in Japan know who black people are - know black peoples history. I think that in the past, Japanese people have taken some Western ideas of black people that are inherently racist. That's really all I'm saying.

Also, I think it's just a little silly to try and disprove the idea of "white skin is better than dark skin" as being racist. It's fine to like white skin and say that it is just as beautiful to dark skin. Saying that it's better is racist. The definition of racism. I'm a little upset at myself that I've been arguing that basic point for so long.

See.. now you're just being paranoid and irrational.

I notice you haven't even addressed the point I've made.

But I'll address yours

-Yes I have studied race relations. I don't think there's a high school student who hasn't studied race relations in New Zealand.
-Your comment on the subtlety of racism is valid... but you have to be able to connect racism to the phenomena in question. YOU HAVE FAILED TO DO SO. The only thing you've been able to do is suggest a connection. But please... back yourself up or don't comment at all. I mean I'm aware of the subtle forms racism can take... but unless you can make such connections then you just sound like a raving lunatic who blames racism for everything.
-I too assume that Japan is aware of the black community in the United States, how it came about, and the at times uneasy relationship between ethnic groups in various places. Again you haven't made any connection between portrayal of black people in the Japanese media and their perceptions of beauty. Just implied that one exists.
-MMM dealt with your final point with the carrots/apples analogy. (Not that he hasn't dealt with the other points you made... I just prefer to counter differently)

Bottom line is that we're willing to listen to you if you can give us a good reason to. But at the moment your explanation simply doesn't wash.

I'm not qualified to say this but I do remember a thread on here in which it was revealed (by a respected forum member who has intimate knowledge of Japan) that Japanese people tend to not even compare themselves with those of other races when it comes to beauty.

[Barone1551]

Mercedesjin- Why is it racist if someone is not attracted to black people? I don's really see that as racist at all. I personally am not much of a fan of blonde haired women. I'm just not as attracted to blonde hair as I am of other hair colors. Now I'm sure you of all people could find me racists somewhere in this comment becuase you are very good at pulling out the most ridiculous reasons why people are "racist". But with my comment about blondes that doesnt make me like blonde girls any less just becuase im not as attracted to them. So my basic point is since when did not being attracted to a certain look make you racist.

And i know this is a very simplistic post, especially after what you guys have been talking about. I just found all these new posts so sorry if this is a step backwards.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Barone1551

Mercedesjin- Why is it racist if someone is not attracted to black people? I don's really see that as racist at all. I personally am not much of a fan of blonde haired women. I'm just not as attracted to blonde hair as I am of other hair colors. Now I'm sure you of all people could find me racists somewhere in this comment becuase you are very good at pulling out the most ridiculous reasons why people are "racist". But with my comment about blondes that doesnt make me like blonde girls any less just becuase im not as attracted to them. So my basic point is since when did not being attracted to a certain look make you racist.

And i know this is a very simplistic post, especially after what you guys have been talking about. I just found all these new posts so sorry if this is a step backwards.

Actually... that is racist and I will side with mercedesjin if this thread goes in that direction. It's the whole internalized racism he was getting at.

Read his posts earlier if you want explanation.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Actually... that is racist and I will side with mercedesjin if this thread goes in that direction. It's the whole internalized racism he was getting at.

Read his posts earlier if you want explanation.

He's a she, but I understand Barone1551's point, which is:

Let's say "Here is my list of turn-ons"

short....fine
glasses....fine
sporty fashion.....fine
fair skin......ALARM! ALARM! RACISM!"

I would say I don't think that is fair. Why are some qualities I find attractive safe, and others racism?

I think the response would be "that's internalized racism...there is a REASON you prefer fair skin, and that is because the media has taught you that dark skin is bad".

I don't like this argument for two reasons. 1) It assumes that the human brain is stupid and is not savvy enough to filter and organize the information it is given and 2) it doesn't allow preference without being racist.

This goes back to the argument about Japanese women and skin tone. Japanese women have tried to keep their skin fair before the existence of black people was even known to Japanese, and yet, if a woman today in Japan uses a parasol in the sun there is the argument that because of "internalized racism" she is unconsciously trying to avoid turning into a black person. I think that argument is insane, frankly. Again, it allows for no free will and it ignores the powerful influences of fashion and tradition.

Considering we all share pretty much the same media, why would there be women that DO try and get tan, and why are there men that are attracted to them? Again, here is where "internalized racism" falls a bit flat.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Actually... that is racist and I will side with mercedesjin if this thread goes in that direction. It's the whole internalized racism he was getting at.

Read his posts earlier if you want explanation.

I still don't really see how this is racist. Where does it say that you have to be attracted to every skin color. I think saying that not preferring one makes you racist is pretty insane. But I will admit there is a fine line there, because there are people out there who dislike a certain skin color because they are racist, but you cant label everyone racist who isn't attracted to every skin tone. And not being attracted to someones skin tone doesn't automatically mean you dislike them as a person. You can like people and not be physically attracted to them. If you dislike people for having a different skin color, then you can be labeled racist. Not if you don't have an attraction to them.

And thank you MMM you said more clearly what I was trying to get at.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

Ok - I haven't read the whole thread, feel free to get annoyed if the following point's have been mentioned previously.

It's sad that preference is considered Racist, I don't like the umbrella term of Racism. A member of the KKK and a high school student with a crush on japanese boys shouldn't be put into the same category. From what iv read thus far (Someone not being attracted to black people = Racism) as an example, when i was a little kid (like grade 3 at primary school) I used to have a "fondness" of girl's with black hair and was not as enthusiastic of other hair colors. That by no means whatsoever makes me a racist, people have to get over this idea that preference is linked to discrimination, whether it be hair, eye or skin color.

It's just like in Lord of the Rings - You know the part - with the Witch King on the battlefield owning everyone, that is until he comes across a lady dressed as a man "LOLOL no man can kill me" "I am no man.. Im a LAYDEH" *Stab* .. *Die*

Fuck You! I walked out of the movie when that happened, and that's not a joke. Do I care that a woman was able to kill the "Witch King"?? No - Do I care that there had to be a point of her being female to kill him?? fucking right I do.

Ok so maybe im going slightly off topic so let me get back on track..

..

On a last note blaming the media for everyone's problems is stupid. Blame the media for coining everything racist for views. I think anyone that believes that it really is racist to have preference should probably jump back into reality for a moment and think about their own preference's everybody has them so unless your willing too label every single person on the face of the earth a racist and diminish the meaning of racism into absolutely nothing and giving the true racist's (members of the KKK) with real "HATE" in their heart a free pass then fuck you.

Because that's what it comes down to "hate" if preference is not based on hateful or negative views then it's not racism.

I agree for the most part with what you are saying. And it is true if you are going to make the argument that preferring one skin tone over another makes you racist, than most of the worlds population would be labeled racist.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Barone1551

I agree for the most part with what you are saying. And it is true if you are going to make the argument that preferring one skin tone over another makes you racist, than most of the worlds population would be labeled racist.

I am not going to speak for Mercedesjin, but I think she would come back with the response that most of the world's population is racist.

[AnthraxAttack]

Blaming the media for this internalized racism we are "suffering" from is as retarded as it gets. Blame a thousand years of socialization. Totaly was the media that infused the minds of feudal europe with this pale nonsense.

What a paradox we are facing, people want us to live in a society that doesn't exist, if we don't live in their little imaginary world, we are racist.

And just for the record, I'm a racist, since i prefer straigth hair and ligther skin. I sure fit nicely in to the group that lynched people because of their skin colour, rigth?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Aw c'mon man! Even when we're on the same side you go and say something that I can't agree with.

Minorities don't "hold most of the cards" here in New Zealand. That's crap... and I'd challenge you to the Australian position to.

Just speak for yourself please.

Dude, free land, all these community centers and organizations to help you find more work, free government money more than whites get. And if any white guy says anything bad about them then they get in so much shit, but when they start saying all this BS about us, no one flinches. It is racism against whites.

[Tenchu]

About the racism due to skin color preference;

I said, and I think I have a nailed point, it isn't racism unless it leads to social exclusion. I mean, I have my preferences, but it isn't racism.

What you guys may not realize is how far this "personal preference" can go. For example, a requirement for a woman to get a job at Air Asia or Thai Airways is she is "well groomed". You'll never find a dark skinned woman workin as a flight attendandt for those airlines, as they believe the sexual preferance of dark skin is not a turn-on for most men, and thus might put them off the airline. Thus, this preference of skin color is leading to social exclusion in these countries, which is why it is racism.