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MissMisa (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
Wait, what?

You say that people are allowed to say other people's fashion senses are ridiculous, yet "as long as you aren't hurting anyone"?

Won't you just hurt them by saying that?

Saying that she wouldn't flatter anyone in that outfit is generalizing to much. We are 6 billions - can you vouch for all of them?

Well, probably not everyone
can take it like you. There are very sensitive people who have the right to dress whatever they like without hearing "HEY YOU FREAK" or anything of the sort.

deteriorating someone is repulsing.
As Columbine said, of course it would hurt them if I said it directly to them (so I wouldn't, unless asked), but it's a random internet picture, she's not going to hear it. And YOU posted the picture, if you didn't want opinions on it then you shouldn't have posted it.

And I didn't say she wouldn't flatter anyone, I said the outfit wouldn't flatter anyone. And I meant in terms of the typical, general population, not every single person in the entire world.

PVC is hard to pull off. Neon blue lipstick is hard to pull off. Blonde hair when your hair is obviously not blonde naturally is hard to pull off. Liquid eyeliner is hard to pull off. And those type of headresses are difficult to pull off. All these combined are fairly impossible to pull off in my opinion.

In an ideal world, people could be all happy and wear what they want and not be called out for it. But this is far from an ideal world, and people have freedom of speech anyway.

Oh and as a side note: I'm the fashion moderator! I encourgage alternative fashion and love it. I'm allowed to have an opinion on this outfit, just as you are. You'd have every right to like it, and so does the person wearing it.
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JasonTakeshi (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbine View Post
Pause please. Hypothetical worlds where this is considered the norm are all very well but they are exactly that; a myth. Sorry. Fact. This is the real world and I'd like to keep this discussion grounded in it. As it happens, blue lipstick is currently 'in vogue' at the moment in the UK. I have seen it done exactly once in a way that actually seemed flattering. Just because it's 'in fashion', doesn't automatically make something a judicious choice. Harem pants a prime example. In fashion last summer and now booed off stage by the fashion industry.

Point the second; I'm saying the ~outfit~ is ridiculous. Not the girl. Not even that particular style of fashion. That one outfit. So please stop generalizing me as the global oppressor of self-expression. I'm perfectly willing to say she might have outfits on a similar theme that work. This one doesn't. It makes her look silly. You can say that's just my opinion, and it is, but I'm certainly not alone in it. And I think there is certainly a point where something stops being opinion and starts being true. The habit doth not make the monk, but it sure disguises him as one.

Thirdly, seeing as you're bringing 'rights' into it, I think you'll find I'm perfectly in my right to say she looks ridiculous if I think so. Saying I have no right to express an opinion other than one you deem to be best is just as offensive as my expressing a negative opinion. She's within her rights to dress how she pleases and say it is beautiful. But she has no right to demand that I agree with her. And neither do you.

Besides, I never said I was the sort to go up to someone and say what I think of what they're wearing. Unless I really like it. As Misa said, it's just not nice. But that's not how things are in this case. YOU pinned this girl up as an example of 'not ridiculous' and invited opinion. I'm not out to shame anyone into changing their way of dress but I'm not going to be anything other than honest if you ask my opinion. Particularly not when the subject is a mere ~picture~ of someone I don't know, will never meet and who will presumably never hear my comments. Get a grip and stop making such a mountain out of a molehill. I'm starting to think this is a picture of your sister or something.

Which brings me onto my last point. You seem to assume that I dress 100% normal 100% of the time and therefore I am intolerant to this style of dress or else jealous because I don't have the guts to wear something that bucks the norm of society. How can you POSSIBLY comment? You have never seen me nor the contents of my wardrobe and I'm not about to disclose that sort of information on the internet. Just how biased and offensive is that assumption anyway? Because I dislike it, I must be just another repressed sheep with no idea about self-expression and thus my opinion isn't valid?
2 - Nobody said that you said that she was ridiculous. Just her sense of fashion - particularly for that outfit.

You saying that she looks ridiculous just because it's your opinion, doesn't necessarily makes her look ridiculous on her outfit. Because you know, there isn't any "universal rule" that stipulates that. Just a bunch of media-brain-washed moogles who thinks so.

3- Well, it probably harms her psychologically. Do you have the right to harm her?

1- I, personaly, don't think that that dress is good. That's my opinion.
2- Jesus christ that outfit is RIDICULOUS! That's SOOOOOO undiva-.


Is she harming you by dressing that way? Is she harming you by thinking she is beautiful in that dress?

You can say you don't like it. You're expressing your opinion freely, without agreeing with her's. But sorry, you can't categorize it "ridiculous" and claim that "half the world" agrees.

4- Just because you find it ridiculous doesn't mean it is. Same goes to me - just because I don't find it ridiculous it doesn't mean it isn't.

No, she's not my sister. And yes, I DO make such a mountain out of a molehill.

Adventures in Anime Conventions: Cosplay - Unsought Input

That's the source. It's from some anime convention.

5- Yes, you are right here. And I apologize.


Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like.
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WeeFugu (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 07:46 PM

What just happened?

*stands behind the topic and pushes back onto the rails with all his might*.

*reads the OP's question and sighs, pushing the topic back off the rails*.

There simply isn't going to be a happy ending here.

*flees*.
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Columbine's Avatar
Columbine (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
[color="Black"]2 - Nobody said that you said that she was ridiculous. Just her sense of fashion - particularly for that outfit.
Good, i'm glad we're clear on that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
You saying that she looks ridiculous just because it's your opinion, doesn't necessarily makes her look ridiculous on her outfit. Because you know, there isn't any "universal rule" that stipulates that. Just a bunch of media-brain-washed moogles who thinks so.
I get your point, and fair enough, it is just my opinion. My one opinion alone doesn't make it so. However the concept of 'ridiculous' is one that is wholly defined by opinion. The more opinions in agreement there are, the more that concept creeps towards fact. That's how I see it. It's not something that you can simply rail against to have removed from society. For a start, doing so would undermine both freedom of speech and a lot of comedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
3- Well, it probably harms her psychologically. Do you have the right to harm her?
But I am NOT harming her. Have I gone to this girl and face-to-face told her I think her clothes suck? Sent her an e-mail? No. As I stipulated, I wouldn't. And if, IF, IF! she were that sensitive, she probably wouldn't be wearing it in the first place. People don't dress to stand out and not expect to get feedback. Some do it precisely for the negative commentary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
1- I, personaly, don't think that that dress is good. That's my opinion.
2- Jesus christ that outfit is RIDICULOUS! That's SOOOOOO undiva-.


Is she harming you by dressing that way? Is she harming you by thinking she is beautiful in that dress? You can say you don't like it. You're expressing your opinion freely, without agreeing with her's. But sorry, you can't categorize it "ridiculous" and claim that "half the world" agrees.
No she's not harming me, but then she didn't seek my opinion on it. You did. I like how you almost perfectly quoted yourself in 1) and utterly misquoted any given opinion in the thread for 2). Don't exaggerate our views to fit your argument. And again, you can't tell me which opinions I am allowed to voice or not. As for "half the world", for god's sake, stop putting words in my mouth. I said I was not alone in thinking so. There's certainly more than one opinion in this thread that concurs with mine, so in that I am accurate. So far, you're actually in the minority. You're the only one who disagrees that the outfit is awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
4- Just because you find it ridiculous doesn't mean it is. Same goes to me - just because I don't find it ridiculous it doesn't mean it isn't.
I'm curious; do you actually think this look flatters her? You said you don't like it, but you've not said if you think it suits her or not. Either way, perhaps all we can do is agree to disagree. I think it's ridiculous, you think we shouldn't say anything one way or the other so as not to offend anyone. Each to their own, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
5- Yes, you are right here. And I apologize.
Apology accepted.

edit: Just checked the link and if it IS a cosplay, then that kind of skews things a little. The outfit should be judged on accuracy instead, as anime characters are rarely conventional and often ridiculous by general observational views. Maybe this is how the character dresses.

Last edited by Columbine : 04-18-2010 at 08:22 PM.
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mariaantoniax (Offline)
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let them be! - 04-18-2010, 10:03 PM

If over weight girls dress up as lolita means that they are more than happy and comfortable with their body and even if ti might not be plesant for us to see we should stop saying comments that will destry their self-steam and let them be happy with their fat and lolita style!


Maria
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JasonTakeshi (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbine View Post
I'm curious; do you actually think this look flatters her? You said you don't like it, but you've not said if you think it suits her or not. Either way, perhaps all we can do is agree to disagree. I think it's ridiculous, you think we shouldn't say anything one way or the other so as not to offend anyone. Each to their own, right?
No, I didn't say that.

I said that you have the right to dislike that girl's sense of fashion and express it in a polite way. (which is NOT calling it ridiculous)

Because calling someone (or in her case, the girl's sense of fashion) ridiculous is extremely deteoriating.

I can't just agree with the way you (and alot like you) think @ this particular subject.


But well, yeah. Different people different opinions.


Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like.

Last edited by JasonTakeshi : 04-18-2010 at 11:21 PM.
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Koir (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
No, I didn't say that.

I said that you have the right to dislike that girl's sense of fashion and express it in a polite way. (which is NOT calling it ridiculous)

Because calling someone (or in her case, the girl's sense of fashion) ridiculous is extremely deteoriating.

I can't just agree with the way you (and alot like you) think @ this particular subject.
Then perhaps each of you can agree to disagree on this particular point, and move on from this subject?


Fortunately, there is one woman in this world who can control me.

Unfortunately for you, she is not here.

"Ride for ruin, and the world ended!"
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JasonTakeshi (Offline)
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04-18-2010, 11:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Koir View Post
Then perhaps each of you can agree to disagree on this particular point, and move on from this subject?
Or we can just call it "2 camels 1 car".


Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like.
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04-19-2010, 04:42 AM

JasonTakeshi:
I don't know if that's you or your sister/girlfriend or something (or else why you seem to be taking this as the mother of all personal insults) but I and many others think it's ridiculous and we are, despite your objections, free to think that, and express it too.

That's both the downside and the upside with the internet; people's opinions tend to be expressed whether you like them or not. Frankly, whining about it for another two pages is most likely not going to change that opinion nor prevent it from being expressed yet again.

For the record; it doesn't mean that we're brainwashed. The fact is, you can't say an opinion is invalid just because it's not unique like yours.

You'll just have to accept that mostly everybody here thinks it looks ridiculous, and if you feel the need to do some misguided and pointless extrapolation about everybody being fashion-industry brainwashed zombies set out to take over the world, then you'll just have to do that and be wrong.

Peace out.
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Columbine (Offline)
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04-19-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi View Post
No, I didn't say that.

I said that you have the right to dislike that girl's sense of fashion and express it in a polite way. (which is NOT calling it ridiculous)

Because calling someone (or in her case, the girl's sense of fashion) ridiculous is extremely deteoriating.

I can't just agree with the way you (and alot like you) think @ this particular subject.


But well, yeah. Different people different opinions.
Seems just like a different view of the word then really. I never thought of 'ridiculous' as being harsh at all, in fact I think it's quite a mild term, but then I guess it's all down in how you interpret its meaning. This turned into quite an interesting discussion. It really sums up the difficulties with getting into alternative fashion well and how tricky it is to see the lines between something socially acceptable, and what will just set you up for ridicule and what else again will offend people.

Sorry if we bored you Koir, I didn't realize you'd been involved in the thread before now. Feel free to jump back to the OP's question anytime you like.
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