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11-29-2007, 08:27 AM
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If my post was too "poetic", well, I am not going to apologize for that. The question struck me and I gave an empassioned and truthful answer. Noodle, to say that presentation is not a vital part of Japanese cuisine is just plain silly. Essential Japanese Cooking: Japanese Serving Dishes and Food Presentation in Japanese cuisine Japanese Food MeSay "Japanese Restaurants In addition to being delicious and healthy, Japanese cuisine is also known for its beautiful presentation." Japanese Cooking Utensils and Serving Dishes: ThingsAsian "Remember that presentation is as important as preparation" Japanese Cooking DVDs course syllabus Tsuji Culinary Institute "Beautiful presentation is an essential ingredient in Japanese cooking." I don't think you give Japanese people enough credit. I don't know about your Chinese myths, but chopsticks in Japan are NEVER used to pierce food, unless to slice a large piece of tofu in half. Why would you say "back in the day real people ate like pigs". What a silly thing to say. Sure, back in the caveman days. Food being appealing to all the senses is hardly a western thing. Have you ever had a meal in England or Ireland? Noodle, you need to check you facts a little better on this one. I would say the same to Tenchu, but I know he doesn't care. 
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11-29-2007, 11:58 AM
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first.. i didn't ask you to apologize for poetic replies, i just said that i agree a little with what tenchu said. secondly.. I said that the reason people use chopsticks hasn't got anything to do with presentation... but that doesn't mean that they don't put a lot of effort into presentation... all good restaurants in the world go all out on presentation these days.. thirdly.. what does giving japanese people credit have anything to do with this? if i didn't appreciate the japanese culture, i wouldn't be on this website and i wouldn't be looking forward to living in japan next year. fourthly.. that was my point with the chinese myth about chopsticks... as they NEVER stab or pierce, they believed this was the reason they used chopsticks.... i hope that makes sense. anyway, just read what i wrote previously more carefully! fiftly.. back in the day people did eat like that in most countries in the world because 99.9% of people were poor at some point in their countries history. So many people actually ate using their hands or they shared their food in a big dish etc (hence the reason chinese food is still shared and is not seperated out into each plate in the way that western food is done)... sixthly.. have you ever eaten a meal in a french restaurant???? french food is actually famous for the presentation and extravagence etc of it. not actaully taste... It is the westerners that first started presenting their food nicely (for the rich aristocrats usualy)
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11-29-2007, 01:29 PM
I`m going to jump in.
While I usually agree with MMM, and almost never agree with Tenchu (sorry :P ) I do have to say that MMM`s explanation is a bit too far removed from reality. Like a romanticized version. I think that people stick with chopsticks because it`s just easier to manipulate your food with them. You`re actually holding on to your food, and not balancing it (spoon) or stabbing it (fork). It`s sort of like, say, a pen. Yes, there are pens that are truly works of art, which provide pleasure when you use them. But I think you`ll agree that 99.9% of the time, you`re not thinking about that while you use a pen. It`s an efficient writing implement - just as chopsticks are an efficient eating utensil. There is nothing particularly special about it, just as there isn`t anything special about using chopsticks to the average Japanese person. It`s only when it becomes something rare or ceremonial that all these meanings appear. That`s why you`ll find tons of people in the US/elsewhere with all these deep interpretations. In modern Japan, chopsticks are the next step up from spoon and fork. Spoons and forks are easy to use, but sloppy. Children use them regularly.... Until they are old enough to manage chopsticks. To go back to the pen idea - spoons and forks are crayons. Chopsticks are pens. Sure, you can write with a crayon... But except for special circumstances, once you can use a pen, would you *want* to?
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11-29-2007, 02:17 PM
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If we really want to get down to the point, wouldn`t it be easier to just scoop the food up with your hands? Or to eat out of the bowl like a dog? Why use utensils at all?? This is like saying that you can`t see the point of a bicycle because you have legs and walking is so much easier.
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11-29-2007, 06:52 PM
Let me clarify myself a little.
First let me say, ITADAKIMASU, don't be silly. If we always did what was easiest the world would be a crispy burnt marshmallow circling the sun right now. To say that ease of efficiency is better is nothing short of lazy. I looked at the original question of "Where do chopsticks come from?" and answered it in the context of food and traditional Japanese culture. I didn't approach it as "Why does a modern Japanese person use chopsticks?" or maybe the question should have been "Why do Japanese STILL use chopsticks?" Yes, my romantic answer doesn't go anywhere near the thought patterns of a modern salary-man or college student. Nyororin, I wrote it that way to sort of make a point. I just wanted to introduce the idea that culture can be found in unexpected places, and to give a different idea than "it's fast and easy", because, as we see, most Westerners hear don't believe that argument. Noodle, I have had French meals, and they are beautufully presented. You said that it satifying all the senses was a western conscept, and I disagreed. Of course all restuarants make a nice presentation. But take it down a notch. Compare a Hokka-hokka bento to a McDonalds meal. The bento is arranged, albeit quickly, by the maker. The McDonands is thrown into a bag. Tenchu, I agree with your last post...(except about the apology  ) I doubt a Japanese person would describe it that way either. Again, I just wanted to introduce the idea of traditional culture being a possible factor, along with "easy to shovel it in".
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11-29-2007, 07:20 PM
Because the Japanese viewed forks and knives as violent wepons, and didn't see a reason in eating with them, But they do still have spoons. ^-^ Also you may think forks and knives are easier to use but to them there not, they are just as skilled with chopsticks as we are with forks, it's just what you have praticed to use and have grown up with. o( ≧∀≦)o
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11-29-2007, 07:24 PM
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EDIT: i just realised what you wrote.... umm, i didn't mean to say that ALL western food is made in the way that is satisfies senses, i have to read what i wrote again, but i didn't mean to say that if i did... because that certainly isn't true... BUT, it certainly does exist!!
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11-29-2007, 07:24 PM
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11-29-2007, 07:25 PM
Sometimes people can't explain why they do things when they were brought up like how they were.
many asians were brought up using chopsticks so, it just became incorporated into their daily life. It's unexplanatory, just like the way you wear slippers or a dressing gown after you wake up/shower. ITS A ROUTINE THING. asking why is just like asking a monkey why he likes bananas. the answer: he likes them, deal with it. "I'm sorry, but i must have given you the impression that I actually care about your opinions"
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hehehehehehehehehe
